To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

I can’t agree and a after a post suggesting Labour will be ok just makes me think of Orwell

I get some posters are pro Labour and are ready to concede but no. Tg there are voices of reason on these threads.

Those changes in your link will allow exemptions for trans inmates on a case by case basis. So no change at all @Chersfrozenface.🙄

TooBig - I would love to feel, like you, that Labour are tacking it. Please can you reassure me by sharing what it is that they have said they'll do.

I'm reassured that Labour are tackling it. unlike our sitting Tory government who have consistently failed women and children because they can't get a handle on the TRAs in their own party.

I worry that the continued chaos within the Tory party will see Penny TWAW Mordaunt as their next leader.

'Tories have been in power for 13 years. They're the ones actually putting men into women's prisons and they've said they won't stop'.

I don't care which parties are to blame for the current situation. I care about a solution being found. I am looking to Labour for this and finding them lacking!

I am at my wits end with current political discourse that focuses solely on whose fault and who is to blame. That is, in part, what should be discussed, but I want solutions and ways forward to follow.

Labour supporters are obfuscating with whataboutary, saying it's the Tories fault and by saying it rarely happens. This isn't good enough!

Wrong.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/update-on-changes-to-transgender-prisoner-policy-framework

It's the SNP government in Scotland who won't stop, they say they will consider the matter.

https://www.gov.scot/news/case-review-on-management-of-a-transgender-prisoner/

Completely agree. It’s all bad but the minimising makes it worse, plus insults for good measure

Are people so reassured by a Drs note for legal female sex certificate to enter single sex spaces, sports and the rest?

Labour have pulled a blinder if so.

The problem is that using circumlocutions like menstruators, people with a cervix etc. To include transmen, you are going against the key principles of health literacy, which is keep it simple. The average person out there has a reading age of 13 and by using more complex language than woman you are going to exclude far more marginalised women (e.g. with learning dusabilities) than include transmen. I am all for targeted health communication using appropriate language for the trans community, but absolutely not in general health communication.

@Brainworm the Tories have been in power for 13 years. They're the ones actually putting men into women's prisons and they've said they won't stop.

I struggle with how much minimising is happening with regard to an issue of rights. The chances of me being forced to share a prison cell or changing room or receiving intimate care from a male bodied person is irrelevant, I want it to be my right not to have to. Why is this so difficult to understand? Either I have this right or I don't. For a long time, Labour not only said that I don't have this right, but also threw in insults about needing to be educated so I didn't want this right. Whilst I am no longer be called a bigot for wanting this (by some of the Labour party), I am told that I shouldn't worry about it as I am unlikely to encounter it.

OP - I would welcome your thoughts on this.

If only the press could make the Tory government do something, but they're not going to do anything.

I'm heartened that Labour have dropped Self ID. There's a wee glimmer of hope that the Tory trans shitshow will end with them.

the only reason we all care so much about the gender stuff is the total catastrophizing in the Tory press

Do you seriously think that, OP? That we don’t care about the loss of our very basic right to single-sex spaces and services?
Our right to not be handled by men when we need intimate care, not be watched by men when we’re undressing, not be forced to accept men exposing themselves at us and our children?

What about children’s right to discover their sexuality naturally as they grow up, and not be subjected to medical experimentation?

I’m very glad the Tory press has finally woken up to the genderist attack on women’s and children’s rights. I’m disgusted with the spineless left/ liberal media that still toe the genderist line.

The only reason so many people don’t protest is that they don’t know what’s going on, because the media have been so slow to start unbiased reporting.

I have felt oppressed by the left, by the actions of the Labour Party, because of the position they took with centring the interests of trans people over and above the concerns of many women. The Labour Party actively did this. THEY insulted, kicked out, and gas-lit people with 'middle of the road' views, who simply wanted thought to be given to competing interests. THEY took an extreme position of using the mantra 'trans women are women', refusing to listen or try and understand. THEY played a part in people losing their jobs as a result of holding what is by any measured judgment a balanced view.

Feeling understood and valued is key to obtaining political support, and Labour failed on this front for many of us. We are left hurt and baffled as to why this happened with this issue and we do not see any signs of them wanting to interrogate why/ where they went so wrong. My view is that misogyny is alive and well and that women's rights continue to be dismissed.

It seems to me that whilst Labour are now saying we need to debate, minimising and discounting is still happening e.g what about poverty, what about climate, this issue effects very few. THEY are still not demonstrating that they understand or care about the concerns of decent, caring and thoughtful people. THIS is massively contributing to the tension and the 'war'.

FFS Labour, pull your fingers out your ears, shut up and listen with the aim of understanding - not correcting, minimising or placating.

They need to win back trust. How do we know that history won't repeat itself with other issues going forward.

Labour have contributed to the unhelpful positioning whereby acknowledging women's interests can conflict with transwomen's interest can be viewed as an attack on trans rights. They have to confront this head on and be clear about wanting to find supportive ways forward for all. This does represent a loss for transwomen, but it was a gain that wasn't Labours to give away.

They need to own their mess and stop blaming others (the right wing press, the culture wars, the Tories).

Apparently not only are we paid bots but according to some visitors to FWR there are only 6 of us with many different sock puppet accounts 😁😁😁

Which one of you other 5 are getting paid then? 😂
I"m not a sock puppet, I just self diagnosed with multiple personality disorder. (Or is that not trendy on the old tiktok anymore?)

Of course those who object to 'woman' being reduced to a man's fantasy role play or feelings and children being fed the bullshit they must destroy their perfectly healthy bodies to be their 'authentic self' are bots.

We'll add it to the list along with nazi's, right wing extremists, evangelical Christians, Terf's etc etc.

We've heard it all, because those who come here to defend the nonsense gender ideology cannot sting together one coherent argument, so they accuse and insult to try to shut us up.

It's total cope.

The difference between what we are actually saying, and what they SAY we are saying are huge.

They just can't have a decent, honest debate.

I’m also inclined to believe that a large chunk of those who appear obsessed with these topics online are paid bots.

Oh yes. Because there's no way there could be that many women who've experienced enough violence from men that they understand the need for safeguarding. Men in the west are so much more enlightened, right?

Oh well, being accused of being a paid bot is a change from being accused of being in the pay of the Christian right

I haven’t read most of the replies on this thread Well maybe you should, before dismissing them?

YABU

I’m in Scotland and the SNP and Greens have shat all over women’s rights. They hate us

Apparently not only are we paid bots but according to some visitors to FWR there are only 6 of us with many different sock puppet accounts 😁😁😁

but this is also where we are at. Insisting that men cannot be women & biological reality matters makes women who say it ‘paid bots’ 🤡

😂 Paid bots! 🤣

The archetypal Left Wing response - ' anyone who disagrees with me is a paid bot '.
Obviously. Because I'm RIGHT.
TBH, I've been reading these 'paid bots' on mn for a long time now, so someone 's paying them well, especially as their posts are always well-informed and intelligent.
On the other hand, threads like this are often populated by unintelligent posters that I've not seen before.

What a load of rubbish. Paid bots 😆

This. But I’m also inclined to believe that a large chunk of those who appear obsessed with these topics online are paid bots. I think they’re there to amplify outrage, to drown out more rational voices and make it seem these are the things other people care about, so the more gullible of us shift our thinking and deprioritise more urgent issues in a ‘nudging’ kind of way. It’s quite sinister.

I haven’t read most of the replies on this thread but I suspect the ‘outraged’ will be on aggressively challenging the OP, claiming she doesn’t care about women’s spaces, and the trans lobby are plotting to kill us all and snatch our wombs for transplant purposes, supported by a cabal of misogynist doctors next week or some such.