To think the gender and sex Ed wars are created by tories

I think many people like the OP don't actually know that there was a complete media blackout about what was going on.

You couldn't talk about it on twitter or any other forum. Mumsnet was the only site possibly in the world at that time that allowed women to discuss our concerns under extremely strict and heavily moderated guidelines.

This was definitely NOT started by hype in the media. In fact, the media have been terrifyingly slow to even start reporting. Someone, somewhere held a lot of power over the media.

If anyone is interested, look back at old threads in FWR. It's all true. Women were fighting for their rights long before governments or media or people like OP even cared that their rights were at risk.

Advanced search is helpful 😉

Oh hello purity spiral poster. I see you've name changed
Well, FOJN has been posting for as long as I remember. But I've not come across Adam Ryan before.
And all of this rolls round (again) to 'just trust Labour, because the Tories are so horrid'
To be frank, an comment piece written by Annaliese Dodds in the Guardian doesn't signify anything. And has Starmer really said anything signicant and meaningfull? No.
So, no thanks, I don't trust Labour.

The Week is a good magazine and scores highly for factual news reporting but it's rated as left leaning on multiple sites for its opinion pieces, I would not describe it as politically neutral.

I do agree with them though that Sunak risks alienating voter's with a negative electoral campaign which focuses on divisive issues. On the gender ideology issue any other party could easily rip the rug out from under him, why aren't they doing that?

Soooo assuming labour get in, a distinct possibility right now, and they do in fact bring in this one dr thing. It's going to be free, I guess, just a matter if waiting for an appointment with your own surgery. I suggest as well as all the other things we will have to be doing to counter this, we all en masse go visit our local gp willing to sign the form and become men.

And as we already can, change our passports and drivers licenses and if it comes to it, our birth certificates.

Then aggressively police our new pronouns.

Also this very topic is discussed by The Week. The Week are politically neutral.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/news/politics/962151/rishi-sunak-will-waging-culture-war-win-him-election%3famp

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1793932/rishi-sunak-weaponise-divisive-trans-migrant/amp

This is the reporting in the pro-Conservative Express about Sunak's election strategy

100% agree

the Tories are determined to use this as an issue at the election

I doubt it. I suspect a lot of them see it as a toxic no-win, same as Starmer does. But there may be some who can be motivated to change the law now, if they're poked hard enough.

Might be an mn thing, many pro Labour voters posting

Basically that @AdamRyan the Tories are determined to use this as an issue at the election which is why they won’t do anything.

every political party is a fucker on this issue

Nonbinary identities and trans people have existed for a very, very long time though

Nonbinary is made up bollocks. Androgyny is as old as the hills but weirdly never required young women and girls to have radical double mastectomies before or pretend sam smith isn't actually just a man.

Transexuals were a tiny number of mostly gay men with dysphoria. It was a mental health issues. They couldn't have any surgery unless they knew they weren't actually changing sex.

The biggest mistake was making 'trans' not a mental health problem, because what else is it if someone dissociates from their body? Entirely deliberate move by the TRA's

This of course removed any and all gatekeeping which allows all the AGP'S, fetishistic transvestites, straight men who call themselves lesbians etc.

It's purely a psychological issue not a physical one.

To me the worry is once womens sex based rights are gone they are gone forever.

Yes. And if the Conservatives were serious about protecting women, rather than playing party politics, they'd make those changes. They have a stonking majority and political pressure on starmer not to oppose.

They won't do this because they are not actually motivated to solve the problem. They would rather do nothing now in the hope the issue wins them votes at the next election.

Actions speak louder than words

Helen Joyce, who is fairly politically savvy, reckons that feminists' best bet is to get the Conservatives to make as many changes to the law as possible, clarifying the Equality Act, schools policy on gender and sex education etc, before the next election which Labour will most likely win for reasons nothing to do with feminism.

Starmer wont actively try to reverse changes that protect women and children because he saw what happened in Scotland and he's realised that if he goes for self id etc then the same leadership disaster that happened to Sturgeon is waiting to happen to him.

I never hear the term purity spiral except when some right wing posters on here level it at me. Because it's so unusual, I assumed it's all the same pister who name changes regularly. Apologies if we have not conversed before.

I don't want to tell you who to vote for. Great it's not the woman hating nasty party though.

I said feminists voting for the conservatives are turkeys voting for Christmas. During the Conservative government period:

• maternal mortality has increased
• women can't get hold of essential medication reliably (HRT)
• childcare has become unaffordable and it's increasingly difficult to find

• as a result increasing numbers of women live in poverty
• rape and sexual assault are effectively decriminalised
• domestic abusers are not effectively dealt with so women are stalked, injured and murdered by abusers even when they've flagged the risk. There is no plan to deal with this
• women are increasingly reporting gender discrimination at work
• porn is increasingly widespread as to be normal and is increasingly violent and misogynist, entrenching damaging attitudes in our teens. Resulting in things like an increase in anal injuries in teen girls which will affect them for the rest of their lives

Yes well done Tories. Women have vaginas. Now if you could come up with some plans to address some of the issues that women face, that would be fab.

Name changed? Why would you say that? Are you accusing me of being a sock puppet? If you want to make a complete fool of yourself you could report me to MN.

No one owes you an explanation for their voting choices so they have no need to pretend about their reasons. Its rather arrogant of you to assume you know what really motivates people to vote the way they do.

I have never voted Tory but I may well do at the next election because I don't trust any other party not to introduce self ID one way of another. I would vote SDP if they field a candidate in my constituency. However I do not think that anyone who votes differently to me is stupid, that takes a certain amount of ego.

Of course limiting the discussion to knowing what a woman is is reductive but you cannot deny that it's the starting point if you intend to protect sex based rights.

Your post is yet more of the same contempt, is it beyond you to have respect for other people's point of view?

@begaydocrime42

people make a massive deal out of it based on what they think woke/libs/trans people are saying rather than what we actually do say lol.

Lol.

Well what do you say then?

Cone on, educate me.

Do you acknowledge sex and gender identity are different?

Do you acknowledge female people - the ones born with bodies that meet the working definition of female that has existed for millenia, which carry with them specific strengths and vulnerabilities that are different to male bodies, and upon which many sexist biases within our culture were constructed - deal with risks and consequences that are due to their sex and are not experienced and suffered the same way by people who are not that sex regardless of how they may label their "gender"?

Do you acknowledge there's no hate or bias in saying those people, the female people, have a right to single sex spaces and support to counteract the physical and social consequences of their sex, and they should not be smeared as bigots for wanting this?

Do you acknowledge the only logic by which a male person can identify as a woman is if one believes men and women have different types of mind, and that this makes the concept of gender identity inherently sexist in construction?

If you do acknowledge these things, why are you not standing against the political and cultural movement to redefine womanhood as simply a type of personality and based on that, strip away any single sex supports or protections?

If you do not acknowledge these things, I'm afraid you are indeed saying exactly what I think you are.

Lol.

I don't want to vote Tory. I loathe the Tories. Please point to a party I can vote for which acknowledges that sex is real, and matters.

Yes I agree with you.
I don't have any issue with anyone choosing not to vote for a party because of their stance on these issues. I left the lib demo for precisely this reason.

Oh hello purity spiral poster. I see you've name changed.

I don't care who you vote for. Just don't pretend your Conservative vote is motivated by concern for women.

I object to Tory fans shutting down any kind of analytical/critical thinking with "they know what a woman is!" It's extremely reductive.

Nothing like turkeys, labour have never supported feminism. They were against women working to start with, no female leaders, why would anyone feminist think Labour are the default party? 🤔

until about 5 minutes ago everyone accepted the A) trans people exist b) no they’ve not actually changed sex, they’re not actually a woman/man and while ppl can identify as whatever gender they want, sometimes sex really matters c) no one should be discriminated against for being trans

and then TRA demanded that we accepted TW are identical to biological women with access to any & all single sex spaces, sports, prizes, programmes and refuges fir women

and so here we are

but you know this….