Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

460 replies

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 14:35

It doesn't make sense to me.

Some people say teachers don't get paid over the holidays. They are paid, they say, for 40 weeks, but their money is aggregated over 52 weeks and paid monthly.

What does that even mean? How is it (practically) any different to being paid (less per week) for 52 weeks?

OP posts:
Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:39

noblegiraffe · 29/08/2023 23:37

My question would be 'why do you care?'

Because it seems to be an anomaly in the world of work that no-one can seem to adequately explain. Why care about anything? I'm curious and am seeking to understand the rationale for it. Can you help?

OP posts:
Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:38

I suppose it's necessary or significant because people bring it up ALL THE TIME.

But that doesn't make it necessary or useful or a good idea. Wouldn't it be better to just get paid for 12 months of work, which includes directed time, non-directed time and holiday?

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 29/08/2023 23:37

My question would be 'why do you care?'

MsAwesomeDragon · 29/08/2023 23:34

Sunnydays41 · 29/08/2023 15:49

However, if you were fortunate enough that maternity leave ended just before a major holiday, ie the summer, Christmas or Easter holidays, you could go back to work for a day or two, then get paid over the holidays, thus extending it that way... Obviously not everyone can do that... though a good proportion of the teachers I know have been able to

Plus also, if teachers work part-time, they still have 100% of their leave, whereas with any other profession, it's pro-rata...

Swings and roundabouts...

Show quote history

You don't even need to go back for a couple of days before the holiday. If term ends on July 19th you can set your return to work date as July 20th if you want, there's no rule against it. I did that, many years ago, because my mat pay was going to run out 4 weeks into the summer holidays.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:33

TheCrystalPalace · 29/08/2023 23:26

I'm just trying to work out what the fuck it's got to do with anyone who isn't a teacher, what they get paid. Also, what the OP's motive for this thread is, as I'm not buying the "Oh, I've got huge respect for teachers" bullshit.

Goady thread which needs binning, in my opinion.

My questions have not been about what
teachers get paid. (The answer in my opinion is not enough. Teachers should, for starters, have their real pay restored to levels it was at before austerity. And extra recruitment should be out in place so no-one is doing 16 hour days.)

My questions have been about how teachers get paid. And if someone could answer that question satisfactorily, I would shut up. Please feel free to help.

OP posts:
UsernameAlreadyTaken101 · 29/08/2023 23:27

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:07

You are incorrect.

I have a huge respect for teachers and the difficult and important job they do. I think they should be paid more. I don't think the school year should be any longer. But none of things seem particularly relevant to the point in question.

Which remains...

I don't understand why the "not get paid for holidays" thing is necessary or significant. That's why I asked. I haven't had a lot of great or well-explained answers to be honest. (The best answers have explained its importance in calculating maternity or pension entitlements.)

If teachers don't get paid for holidays (and get paid for 9 months of the year), then their hourly rate must be higher pro rata than it would be if they were paid for all 12 months. But teachers aren't paid an hourly or daily rate, because their contracts expect them to work their directed hours/days and whatever other hours/days are necessary to carry out the job.

So I don't understand why teachers aren't just paid like everyone else for the work needed to take place to teach a class of kids for a year, including the time needed to mark and prepare. Pretending that only takes 9 months doesn't seem to be beneficial to anyone.

Show quote history

I suppose it's necessary or significant because people bring it up ALL THE TIME. It's one of the first things people mention when you tell them you are a teacher ..oh lucky you getting all those holidays.

I don't understand why it's so difficult for people to grasp that there are days you don't work AND don't get paid.

I'm not sure what you mean about the amount of time needed to teach a child. It's not a manufacturing process that has a specific start and end point. It's about quality of learning and teaching, not quantity. Children need down time away from the classroom, to spend time with their families and time to just be children.

School is extremely important but it's not the only important factor in a child's development. It seems more important than ever now of course as schools are left to pick up the pieces of years of cuts to services in mental health, additional support needs, and other supports which have been eroded so severely. I think a lot of teachers get so disheartened when they knock in their pans to help children and families yet seem to face never ending criticism.

TheCrystalPalace · 29/08/2023 23:26

I'm just trying to work out what the fuck it's got to do with anyone who isn't a teacher, what they get paid. Also, what the OP's motive for this thread is, as I'm not buying the "Oh, I've got huge respect for teachers" bullshit.

Goady thread which needs binning, in my opinion.

Sherrystrull · 29/08/2023 23:25

Primary, full time , Middle manager with a large class, plus two subjects and a key stage to run.

PeggyPiglet · 29/08/2023 23:25

Thatladdo · 29/08/2023 22:54

It could be seen as they are paid a wage, over a shorter working year.
A perk.
Perhaps they should attend school and work through holidays, they are being paid afterall

The point is, if teachers did do this, it would be unpaid overtime.
Because most teachers do work during holidays, they are doing so unpaid.
The more work teachers do during unpaid holidays, the less they get per hour of work they do.

Teachers should really be paid for say, 1300 hours, rather than 1265 as that is more realistically the amount of hours teachers actually work.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:23

What kind of teacher are you, if you don't mind me asking?

OP posts:
Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:22

Do you work 16 hours a day?

OP posts:
Sherrystrull · 29/08/2023 23:22

10 hours at school plus often 6 at night.

Sherrystrull · 29/08/2023 23:22

Sadly that's one of the major problems in teaching. I could work 24 hours a day and still not have everything done, but it's ok as it's a salary...

Who cares if teachers work so many hours they get approx 50p an hour. It's not unpaid right? I should suck it up and not moan as I get long holidays?

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:20

You work 16 hours a day?

OP posts:
Sherrystrull · 29/08/2023 23:18

@MasterBeth

Great. So working 16 hours a day is ok because I get a salary? I wonder what my hourly wage would be.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:17

Pieceofpurplesky · 29/08/2023 22:49

Here we go again.
Regardless of anyone thinking teachers are paid for the holidays, they are not. You can argue the toss as much as you like. It's in black and white in the terms and conditions.
Look it up.
Paid in but not for.

No-one's arguing about the facts, are they? I just want to know why it's significant.

Maybe I should ask it another way. Would you like to be paid for the holidays? How would anything be different if your salary was not just paid out in 12 installments but earned in 12 installments?

OP posts:
Zonder · 29/08/2023 23:16

FatandRoundBouncingontheGround · 29/08/2023 22:07

@zonder Well I am not a private EP as I don't agree with working only for parents who can afford to pay so that is my pay! That's like saying if you went to work in Dubai as a teacher you could earn more. It's true, but not relevant!

I am mid 50s and my husband earns over double what I do, working in the private sector. Until 29 we earned the same. I wouldn't consider what he does, he wouldn't consider what I do. I accept I get less pay than him because of the choices I make about where and how I want to work. Isn't that normal?

I don't understand why someone who wants to earn a six figure salary and work in an office would decide to become a teacher. We all know that isn't how it works in the public sector.

Show quote history

I don't get what point you're making. You don't do private work because you don't agree with it. Plenty of people do and earn more. The issue is that we underpay our public employees. It's not a race to the bottom.

And lots of people would consider teaching rather than their current job (and not all private sector jobs are office jobs, of course) but won't because of the pay. I've had so many conversations along these lines over the years, particularly from working women who have done well in their careers then discover that they would like to spend school holidays with their children rather than pay someone else for child care.

Summer22222345 · 29/08/2023 23:15

Definitely 32.5 hours per week in our Trust paid, but know actual hours higher.

52 weeks including the 5.6 weeks hol/bank hol everyone gets.

Private sector meant other jobs generally not private schools

Totally not disputing the job itself is unbelievably stressful.

Fizbosshoes · 29/08/2023 23:14

One material advantage I see (and there aren't many at all- I definitely couldn't be a teacher even though my own salary for ft is similar to an NQT) is lower childcare bills over school holidays.
I accept that teachers do a lot of work at home and over holidays, but it definitely must make a difference from a household income not to have to pay for/arrange leave for all 13 weeks of school holidays?

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:10

Sherrystrull · 29/08/2023 23:03

The holidays are wonderful. I wouldn't stay in the job without them.

Smiling at the poster claiming teacher might need to do the odd hour over the contracted hours. 5 or 6 hours extra unpaid a day is normal

I'm sure there's other jobs doing unpaid overtime but I can't comment on them as I don't do them.

OK, how is it unpaid if your contract says it is part of the work required to do your job?

OP posts:
Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 23:07

PaperLanterns · 29/08/2023 22:29

I reckon the OP is just stirring things up before school starts and the proper teacher bashing can begin.

What’s it to you how we get paid?

Why are we constantly having to defend ourselves to do a job that nobody seems to want to do, that requires thousands of pounds of personal investment to do a public sector job. It’s no wonder that the kids are lacking respect for teachers when their parents are this sniffy.

You are incorrect.

I have a huge respect for teachers and the difficult and important job they do. I think they should be paid more. I don't think the school year should be any longer. But none of things seem particularly relevant to the point in question.

Which remains...

I don't understand why the "not get paid for holidays" thing is necessary or significant. That's why I asked. I haven't had a lot of great or well-explained answers to be honest. (The best answers have explained its importance in calculating maternity or pension entitlements.)

If teachers don't get paid for holidays (and get paid for 9 months of the year), then their hourly rate must be higher pro rata than it would be if they were paid for all 12 months. But teachers aren't paid an hourly or daily rate, because their contracts expect them to work their directed hours/days and whatever other hours/days are necessary to carry out the job.

So I don't understand why teachers aren't just paid like everyone else for the work needed to take place to teach a class of kids for a year, including the time needed to mark and prepare. Pretending that only takes 9 months doesn't seem to be beneficial to anyone.

OP posts:
UsernameAlreadyTaken101 · 29/08/2023 23:05

Eggs2022 · 29/08/2023 22:53

Whether or which… why do teachers apply for college, go to college, do work placement etc all to be a teacher… and then say they only get paid for 39 weeks and that it’s underpaid as a result as only 39 weeks… why not train and get a job that’s 52 weeks and make more money? Not like if you can get into college and afford to go etc that you didn’t have any other opportunities, could have done another degree in a diff field… not bashing teachers at all or what they get paid etc just always wonder why they chose that field if they weren’t going to be happy with only 39 weeks pay when they always knew it would be 39 weeks pay

I don't think anyone on here is unhappy with their salary or complaining it's not enough. They are just pointing out how the payments are distributed equally throughout the year which gives the illusion that teachers are being paid even when not working.

Sherrystrull · 29/08/2023 23:03

The holidays are wonderful. I wouldn't stay in the job without them.

Smiling at the poster claiming teacher might need to do the odd hour over the contracted hours. 5 or 6 hours extra unpaid a day is normal

I'm sure there's other jobs doing unpaid overtime but I can't comment on them as I don't do them.

UsernameAlreadyTaken101 · 29/08/2023 22:57

Summer22222345 · 29/08/2023 22:40

Teachers work incredibly hard, however the salary they receive is for 39 working weeks per year, 32.5 hours per week, plus 4 weeks holiday, plus 1.6 weeks bank holidays ie/ 44.6 weeks.

So eg/ £40K take home pay for the above, divided by 12, however if this was factored up to 52 weeks per year, or even 37 hours per week, it would be more like a salary of £50K. The pension is also generous and adds maybe the equivalent of £10K salary (vs a private pension, given the higher employer contribution and other benefits of the scheme).

The confusion arises as £40K sounds low, but factoring in the above it is really more like a salary of £60k, if compared like with like in private sector.

I'm not sure where teachers work 32.5 hours a week? A full time post is officially 35 hours. Unofficially it's probably at least 50. Yes, there is no legal standing for this but it is an unwritten expectation. The level of pressure and bullying towards newly qualified staff is outrageous. And it's a case of shut up and put up with it.
There's also the human factor, if there is a social work issue or a child or parent needing support you don't just walk out and leave them or say sorry it's my lunch break/home time.
I'm sure those who work in the private sector know what those kinds of unwritten rules are like.

Also, you can't recalculate it as being 50k if you worked 52 weeks of the year. That's daft. Nobody works 52 weeks of the year so it's irrelevant.

If you were to compare the actual job like for like to the private sector you may find that private schools often pay lower rates and they don't have the same pension schemes as public sector staff. I'd imagine they have better working conditions though in terms of classroom support, smaller class sizes and quality resources.

Thatladdo · 29/08/2023 22:54

It could be seen as they are paid a wage, over a shorter working year.
A perk.
Perhaps they should attend school and work through holidays, they are being paid afterall