...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

I think you just made my point for me.

Different people consider it in different ways.

When I was teaching I considered my wages as a monthly thing. Ie salary/12 = monthly pay.

I never bothered to calculate whether some of the year was paid more, some unpaid etc.

Whilst one can leave when you like notice periods normally run to 31st Dec, 30th April(?) and 31st August.

I finished teaching in the July but my actual contract finished 31st August and so I got ‘paid’ for the remainder of July and August. ie 12 months of pay for my 12 months of work.

To complicate things further…. Most on a salary have no mention of hours worked. Teachers do - a notional number of hours/year. All but impossible to do the job properly and keep to the hours.

Not unrelated…… many TAs and Technicians are paid just for termtime only.

The pay is poor anyway. Their monthly pay is often calculated…..

(FT salary x40/52)/12 = monthly pay.

Our technician turned down overtime as it would put him above the benefits level - and he was a single man.

No wonder so many quit and work for supermarkets etc.

This. My contract says 6.5 directed hours a day plus a non specified but reasonable amount of non directed hours to cover the workload.

I'm a peripatetic advisory SEN teacher. My directed hours are 9-3.30 usually. This is time I spend either in schools or driving between them, or in meetings/training. I start work and hour earlier to do emails and make sure I'm prepped for the day. I work 3.30 onwards at home to do the paperwork. Sometimes I can finish about 5.30 and have dinner with my family. Most days (at least 2 of the 3 days a week that I work) I then have to carry on until the work is done. Usually this takes til 9 or 10. So I am doing between 3 and 6 hours a day non directed time. I'm not paid more for this. It is part of my contract and I agree, it's a lazily thought out clause.

It's a graduate job, I'm highly skilled in my specialisation and I've been teaching for 30 years. In many jobs I would have been on a higher salary years ago. That's why it matters that we don't get paid for the whole year. If the salary was this and I was paid for a full year it would really be a joke.

I think you are trying to make teachers contract and employment fit into your understanding of a job contract. It just doesn’t .

I agree it’s a salaried position so people are paid to
complete the job .If we wanted teachers to work more days though we would have to pay them more and their holidays becomes less.

When people are asking for schools to be open more days and have shorter holidays, teacher quite rightly point out they are not paid to be in school anymore days, and so I guess this is where the argument lies. I think it just is a job that doesn’t fit the standard model.

Trying to explain teacher notice periods and resignation dates to non-teachers is always funny. It has to be the most bonkers part of our contracts if you are used to having a fixed notice period in a normal job.

If you resign on 28/29th February it can be as short as 4 weeks, but if you resign on 1 November it can be over 5 months.

@Walkaround 😂 perfect analysis. No other job I know has only 3 times a year you can resign, and if you miss it by a day you are stuck for another term. Know why, but it is a bit bonkers.

(Or, to put it another way, teachers’ employment contracts are ridiculous 😂)

@MasterBeth - the info you were given about maternity leave shows that teachers do not have a contractual entitlement to paid annual leave. They do have statutory rights to 28 days’ annual leave, but there is no statutory right for a teacher to be paid for all the school holidays. The practicalities of this are, clearly, that you need to consult a specialist legal adviser if you want an accurate answer to your question. It is silly to pretend there is no practical difference between one contract and another. When things go wrong with your employment, suddenly you notice the practical differences that you were airily claiming a week before were mere technicalities.

@Hercisback@Sunnydays41@Tulipvase
*Plus also, if teachers work part-time, they still have 100% of their leave, whereas with any other profession, it's pro-rata..."

In schools the holidays are set - so you get your leave at the same time as everyone else - but you are only on 'leave' for the days you work.. If I work 2 days - I'm on leave (pro-rata) for 2 days each week of the holiday - whereas full time staff are on leave for all 5 of them.

Imagine I worked in a bog standard office. I work Thursday and Friday - (2 days).. when I book leave I don't book 5 days leave (Mon - Fri) to get my Thursday and Friday off.. I get a full week holiday - but only used 2 days leave!

Theoretically a teacher could work one day a week and still have 65 days holiday a year.

You really are talking nonsense.. I work one day a week say Wednesday - as a teacher - I get paid for that one day a week - there are 52 Wednesdays in a year.. How can I possibly get 65 days holiday?

(If the government went mad and instigated full time school - and only gave teachers 4 weeks off a year ... i'd be expected to work 48 days.. again.. How can I get 65 days off?)

It has been explained to you over and over OP. You're just not getting the answers you want.

It just is this way. We are paid for the days we work with the kids (plus 5 and extra hours).

195 days + standard holiday pay.
The rest of the time there are no kids there so no teaching. It's like a hotel that shuts out of season and gets rid of its seasonal workers. They are not paid as the purpose of their job is removed.

In order to maintain a steady income the pay is split over 12 months for teachers. It didn't used to be like this but someone somewhere changed it years ago.

Quite. The OP is a case in point, as their irrelevant and unwarranted psychological assessment of you demonstrates.

Those 5 days are inset days (non-pupil days used for training.

My point is about not being paid for the holidays.

Teacher contracts are archaic and unlike standard job ones. There are no fixed working hours in them other than 1265 hours per year over 195 days when they can be directed to be in a particular place (ie school). It’s not 1265 hours of work - it’s a contract with a specific number of hours when the boss (head teacher) can tell them where they physically must be and what they must do. Teachers work many hours over this to fulfil their roles and this varies between schools, roles, individual teachers…

Now here is the evidence that teachers are not paid for all of the holidays.
The archaic teacher contract contains no contractual right to annual leave or holiday pay. However the 2007 working time directive gives a statutory right to 28 days annual leave.
Looking at the non-accrual of annual leave to tag on to maternity leave really lays this all out.

You can see some examples:
https://www.st-josephs.slough.sch.uk/assets/Documents/Attachments/Maternity-Leave-and-Pay-Policy-for-Teachers-.pdf

https://www.milton-keynes.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2022-02/2018%2006%2014%20-%20Maternity%20Policy%20for%20Teaching%20Staff%20%20-%20FV2.0%20-%20June%202018.doc

https://pitcheroak.worcs.sch.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/49-Maternity-Leave-for-Teachers-Jan-2015-updtd-June-2020.pdf

Plenty examples of teacher maternity policies via google.

Teachers get paid 12 monthly instalments of an annual salary in the UK. Teachers are only actually paid for their contracted hours but in reality they work waaaay beyond their contracted hours so it's a moot point. It's a way to justify teachers' comparatively lower salaries. So if they were paid for the full year (and contracts were changed to include something like summer school) then teachers would need a decent whack added. There was a lot of fuss about this post COVID when lots of parents were saying teachers should just work over the summer holidays to help kids catch up but the general public had no idea about teachers' pay and conditions and that they are only contracted to work 190 days a year.

Hourly/daily rates are needed for many reasons...eg calculating part-time salaries, maternity pay, sick leave, time owed in lieu, overtime payment(rare!)
Hope that makes sense!

No one makes 'teachers' do anything, except the teaching SLT, ergo it's 'teachers' that make teachers do 'extra' stuff.

This thread is about if Teachers get 'holiday pay'/paid for holidays and the consensus here is that they do.

What needs to get in the bin is people making teachers jump through hoops to justify themselves by feigning interest in historical vagaries of the teaching contract.

No one gives that much of a shit.

The point I made upthread still stands. If teachers were paid for the holidays, they could be compelled to be on the premises. But they're not. It's an administrative convenience. That is all.

They ger paid in 12 payments. They are paid for 195 days. So that payment is spread over but they are only paid for 190 days work