...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

@HoliHormonalTigerLillyTheSecond

excuse me? 😂😂😂😂😂 I wasn't moaning. I was just staring factual info about how my pay works. Jeeeez! I love my job. 13 weeks off a year... who wouldn't.

@Batatahara

I don't care at all if you believe me or not. I often work those hours and if I don't work 6 hours at night then I make those hours up at the weekend. I'm tired of people not believing the realities of many teachers. Do you think the same about lawyers, doctors, solicitors or nurses when they share their working hours? I don't get the mentality of people who hear people share their experiences and tell them they're lying.

About ten years ago I was already an experienced teacher and the workload dropped to a more manageable level. Now SEND levels have sky rocketed, I have at least 10 more children in my class than 10 years ago. The job has changed beyond recognition. I hope to leave within 4 years when my dc are old enough to not need me during the holidays.

You have to hand your notice in by 31st May and then your leaving date is 31st August. If you don't hand your notice in till 1st June then your leaving date is 31st December.

It would be paid normally, not in a lump sum.

Teachers have to give notice at half term to leave at the end of that term. So if a teacher gave notice in May half term, their leaving date would be 31st August.

Teachers are not usually allowed to leave mid term. If in an emergency a school agreed to waive that notice period and the teacher left for example in June a month before the schools break up then I think they would lose their summer holiday pay.

Can someone explain what happens if a teacher leaves mid year?
So for example, they have completed their teaching hours annual requirement, but say left just before the summer holidays began. Do they get those 3 months of pay given over to them in a lump sum? They've earned it!

Perhaps teachers, and other professionals, should just be paid for the hours they actually work to get the job done (including the work done in the holidays/weekends), rather than paid a salary. I doubt this would ever happen though. Probably would work out more expensive 😅

Probably more expensive??? It would be impossible for us to paid for the hours we work.

I already have 4 "enrichments" booked in.
On these occasions I have the children after school from 3.30 after having taught them all day , they then have their tea at school and then we go to wherever it is we are going so for one example the theatre show they are doing and then at 9pm wait for parents to pick up. There will always be that one parent that is " stuck in traffic" so realistically I won't finish till 9.30PM. And then I am back in at 7.30 for the next school day.

And all this is not from my directed hours because there is already none left due to all the other meetings/training/essential things we have to do.

Last year I did 6 "enrichment opportunities" all together and all with a lovely SLT stating well its for the children as they never get these kind of experiences, although SLT don't attend or offer to do it!! 🤔🤐

But yeah I only work 39 weeks a year and get paid loads so.....

I am a teacher. I get paid for 1265 hours a year spread out over 12 months. My contract does also say 'you may be required on occasions to work additional hours'.

The problem, I have found in previous schools, is what is considered to be reasonable when it comes to working those additional hours. When I go back to school next week, I will spend usually between 2-3 hrs a day beyond my contracted hours to get planning, marking, admin done, plus whatever work I do during weekends/holidays. Usually, I don't mind as long as I have professional autonomy.

Unfortunately, I have worked in schools where working additional hours were considered 'reasonable' were in fact completely unreasonable. If you fail to keep up to to unrealistic policies (e.g. marking every piece of work every child did in each lesson - I work secondary and teach over 150 different kids every day), despite working ridiculous hours ticking off lots of useless crap that doesn't actually help children, they eventually start capability procedures. With no union representation, you can only jump ship.

I guess my point is that I don't mind the additional working hours in my contract, as long as they're not going make me burn out, that the tasks I spend time on actually helps the kids that I teach and I am not wasting precious unpaid time on tasks that only serve to tick a box.

Unfortunately, a lot of schools exploit this part of the contract. My contract says I am not entitled to be paid overtime.

Perhaps teachers, and other professionals, should just be paid for the hours they actually work to get the job done (including the work done in the holidays/weekends), rather than paid a salary. I doubt this would ever happen though. Probably would work out more expensive 😅

Yes they get the statutory entitlement as the working time directive overrides the teacher contract which does not give an entitlement to annual leave. I would like to see teachers having a contractual right to annual leave.

@beyourownchampion
It doesn’t really matter if your annual leave is worked out in days or hours. Depends on your job. I work part time in an office job and it’s worked out in days. My DH works full time in an office ion and it’s worked out in hours.

If you ask your HR/payroll for a breakdown of your support staff salary it will be something like
A: 38 weeks term time
B: 1 specified week for inset/training days (may be more specified weeks depending on the school/trust/LA)
C: Annual leave entitlement (at least 5.6 weeks but it’s more in plenty of LAs)

A+B+C = your total weeks of pay
Hourly rate x your total weeks of pay = your annual salary
your annual salary is then divided over 12 months to give your monthly salary

For full disclosure, I was previously a teacher but the holidays/school closure periods and salary were absolutely not enough to make up for the terrible working conditions. I now work in a job and have a contractual entitlement to annual leave (higher than teachers’ statutory entitlement) as well as a contract with set working hours and the right to accrue time in lieu for hours worked above these (as well as lots of other flexible things). Teacher contracts are archaic and I would welcome modernisation of them. I would like to see teachers having set working hours with annual leave entitlement, overtime pay or time off in lieu etc. it might help to keep people in the profession! Hats off to all the teachers out there either back into term already or preparing for next week.

In office jobs, part time employees book off their time in hours. Ie if you work 15 hours just on a Thursday and Friday and you wanted a Thursday off, you’d book 7.5 hours. (Not one day) otherwise a part time employee would never be at work!!

you’d be entitled to 15 hours x 5 weeks = 75 hours approx.

@MasterBeth have you taken the time to read the links I posted showing the legal position of teachers contacts having no annual leave entitlement but the working time directive overriding this with the statutory minimum of 5.6 weeks? You don’t seem to have responded to this but I feel sure it confirms the answer that teachers are paid for 5.6 weeks of the holidays but not the rest of them.

@beyourownchampion you are incorrect. Teacher and support staff contracts are different. However, both are entitled to the statutory minimum annual leave of 5.6 weeks. In my LA, support staff get 5.8 weeks rising to 6.4 weeks for longer service. Technically, support staff have a contractual annual leave entitlement which is higher than teachers’ statutory entitlement (teachers have no contractual right to annual leave).

To clarify….. If you’re a full time teacher you do get paid for 52 weeks per year. In our school you are employed on a set point which equals a yearly wage and you then move up through the bandings as you get more experience.

I am ‘support staff’ in a secondary school, also full time but I get paid 45 weeks per year (averaged out so get paid every month)

in my opinion this is discrimination. My pay is vastly reduced (it’s just above min wage per hour) and we’re also not allowed to work for anyone else in the hols without school’s prior approval. Most support staff have to work at least two jobs to survive. Some have 3 or 4.

Most teachers earn over double my wage.

I don't believe you.

That would mean you worked from 7am - 5pm and then 6pm-midnight every single day without any breaks.

The teacher workload survey gives an average of about 50 hours a week which is a lot of hours, I have done that before and I know it's really hard and that teachers work hard. But I don't believe you are working 80 hours a week very week of term.

TA here
I get paid 32 hours a week for 34 weeks of the year plus they add in the statutory 4 weeks holidays pay in my monthly pay this equals £**
Then the £** amount is DIVIDED by 12
So I'm paid all year but NOT for all the school hols..just the four the law says they have to pay me.

Not enough to keep people in the job though.

@Nw22 but they don't. Does that help ?

If they are only paid for 39 weeks a year then teachers are very well paid compared to other people like nurses

When people are asking for schools to be open more days and have shorter holidays, teacher quite rightly point out they are not paid to be in school anymore days, and so I guess this is where the argument lies

Very true-that is is often when such discussion comes from.

I can’t imagine spending that much of my time debating how the holidays of a job that I don’t do, work! Maybe Gillian Keegan would try to work out how it works, though I’m sure even she’d just ask an employment lawyer, not mumsnet 😂

"If you resign on 28/29th February it can be as short as 4 weeks, but if you resign on 1 November it can be over 5 months."

And if you resign on the 1st of June (instead of 31st May), it can be near enough 7 months!

The OP couldn't give a fuck. Just like the one who posted a similar faux-naif thread about the holidays earlier this year. I can't imagine why anyone who isn't a teacher cares about their pay schedules, but as the new academic year is about to start, it's a reasonable teacher-bashing intro.

Utter utter twatology.

OP you've had lots of people explain teacher contracts now.

I don't work on the holidays (as a teacher) because I arrange my time not to and have better boundaries than I did as a less experienced teacher.

Maternity pay is where teachers can be winners (or losers) depending on the timing of birth.

Wait til you get into the complication of exam marking contracts!