Page 3 | ...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

MasterBeth · 2023-08-29T13:35:09+00:00

It doesn't make sense to me. Some people say teachers don't get paid over the holidays. They are paid, they say, for 40 weeks, but their money is aggregated over 52 weeks and paid monthly. What does that even mean? How is it (practically) any different to being paid (less per week) for 52 weeks?

NoMoreLifts · 31/08/2023 23:36

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 16:35

No, but you don't get to choose to sacrifice your holiday for more money in most other jobs. It's not unique to teachers.

Looking at my job contract, I am contracted to work 1725 hours a year - my daily hours x the days I have to work. I work many more hours than this without overtime etc.

Teachers are contracted to work 1265 hours a year (and I know work many more hours on top).

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But the 1265 hours doesn't include planning and marking. That not 'directed' time, because you can do it when you like.

Shinyandnew1 · 31/08/2023 22:47

Shinyandnew1 · 31/08/2023 22:46

I would love to know what the teachers in this school would make of your post.

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Sorry, @UsernameAlreadyTaken101 I didn’t mean your school, I meant the OP’s!

Shinyandnew1 · 31/08/2023 22:46

UsernameAlreadyTaken101 · 31/08/2023 22:26

I think @Pineapples198 is on the wind up. Primary teachers teach 4 or 5 subjects per day. If you have 30 kids in your class that is a lot of marking. Obviously some subjects don't require marking but will need time for organising equipment and materials. Also, our office staff only work from 8-4 so aren't there to see what time many teachers come in or leave.

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I would love to know what the teachers in this school would make of your post.

Upwiththelark76 · 31/08/2023 22:42

Pineapples198 · 31/08/2023 19:18

I work in admin / HR in a primary school. Our teachers do get paid over the holidays. Their contracts are 27.5 hours per week all year round (52 weeks per year). The teachers work more hours during the term than 27.5, effectively making up the hours for the rest of the year so that they can have all holidays off. As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc - most of our teachers don’t work over the summer break or maybe do a day or two.
Their job is difficult - however all our teachers leave by 4pm, have a lunch break, and don’t work all of the teacher training days as they do an hour most weeks on Mondays (3:15-4:15) This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.
Its not a bad salary for only working 38 weeks of the year… they earn a lot more than I do. I used to work 50 hours a week in hotel sales for £18k a year, a teachers salary seems great to me. But I guess it’s all relative.

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣do you actually
have any idea of what teachers do ?

Qilin · 31/08/2023 22:40

From my teaching experience, they MUST on the wind up!

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 31/08/2023 22:26

Pineapples198 · 31/08/2023 19:18

I work in admin / HR in a primary school. Our teachers do get paid over the holidays. Their contracts are 27.5 hours per week all year round (52 weeks per year). The teachers work more hours during the term than 27.5, effectively making up the hours for the rest of the year so that they can have all holidays off. As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc - most of our teachers don’t work over the summer break or maybe do a day or two.
Their job is difficult - however all our teachers leave by 4pm, have a lunch break, and don’t work all of the teacher training days as they do an hour most weeks on Mondays (3:15-4:15) This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.
Its not a bad salary for only working 38 weeks of the year… they earn a lot more than I do. I used to work 50 hours a week in hotel sales for £18k a year, a teachers salary seems great to me. But I guess it’s all relative.

I don't understand why people make up this nonsense on the internet. Anybody who has ever worked in a school knows what utter BS it is so why lie? What purpose does this serve?

UsernameAlreadyTaken101 · 31/08/2023 22:26

Qilin · 31/08/2023 22:15

I'm confused why you think primary school teaching means there is limited marking?
As office staff do you really have a good grasp of what marking, assessment and moderation takes place across reception, key stage 1 and key stage 2?

I'm surprised that all teaching staff are leaving by 4pm each day and doing no work in holidays, weekends or after school. How do you know what they do when at home?

Do they not have any additional after school, before school or lunchtime meetings each week? No after school or lunchtime clubs?

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I think @Pineapples198 is on the wind up. Primary teachers teach 4 or 5 subjects per day. If you have 30 kids in your class that is a lot of marking. Obviously some subjects don't require marking but will need time for organising equipment and materials. Also, our office staff only work from 8-4 so aren't there to see what time many teachers come in or leave.

Qilin · 31/08/2023 22:22

The INSET time is 5 x 6 hours = 30 hours.
This doesn't need to be taken as a whole day, though sometimes whole or half days work well when external speakers are in.

This year we have two full days at the start of term = 12 hours (obviously we are there longer, that's just the directed time, so,doesn't include lunch/break times)

We then have 18 hours to do. We do these as 6 separate twilights - 3 hours after school, spread across the school year. Some of these will be internal training/cpd and some will be from external agencies and trainers.

On top of this we have an hours meeting each week. That's not counted in inset time.

Qilin · 31/08/2023 22:15

Pineapples198 · 31/08/2023 19:18

I work in admin / HR in a primary school. Our teachers do get paid over the holidays. Their contracts are 27.5 hours per week all year round (52 weeks per year). The teachers work more hours during the term than 27.5, effectively making up the hours for the rest of the year so that they can have all holidays off. As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc - most of our teachers don’t work over the summer break or maybe do a day or two.
Their job is difficult - however all our teachers leave by 4pm, have a lunch break, and don’t work all of the teacher training days as they do an hour most weeks on Mondays (3:15-4:15) This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.
Its not a bad salary for only working 38 weeks of the year… they earn a lot more than I do. I used to work 50 hours a week in hotel sales for £18k a year, a teachers salary seems great to me. But I guess it’s all relative.

I'm confused why you think primary school teaching means there is limited marking?
As office staff do you really have a good grasp of what marking, assessment and moderation takes place across reception, key stage 1 and key stage 2?

I'm surprised that all teaching staff are leaving by 4pm each day and doing no work in holidays, weekends or after school. How do you know what they do when at home?

Do they not have any additional after school, before school or lunchtime meetings each week? No after school or lunchtime clubs?

Walkaround · 31/08/2023 19:48

Pineapples198 · 31/08/2023 19:18

I work in admin / HR in a primary school. Our teachers do get paid over the holidays. Their contracts are 27.5 hours per week all year round (52 weeks per year). The teachers work more hours during the term than 27.5, effectively making up the hours for the rest of the year so that they can have all holidays off. As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc - most of our teachers don’t work over the summer break or maybe do a day or two.
Their job is difficult - however all our teachers leave by 4pm, have a lunch break, and don’t work all of the teacher training days as they do an hour most weeks on Mondays (3:15-4:15) This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.
Its not a bad salary for only working 38 weeks of the year… they earn a lot more than I do. I used to work 50 hours a week in hotel sales for £18k a year, a teachers salary seems great to me. But I guess it’s all relative.

Except, of course, that interpretation would also mean that teachers get no holidays, so could validly complain, instead, that they are expected to work 365 days per year. 😂😂😂

Don’t go into teaching - you get no holidays! 😱😂

NeverDropYourMooncup · 31/08/2023 19:38

Shinyandnew1 · 31/08/2023 19:30

This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.

Really? No Twilights?

As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc

Riiight.

It's a strange conclusion to reach immediately after saying as they do an hour most weeks on Mondays (3:15-4:15) - an additional 30 hours (I'm estimating there, obviously, it could be 25 weeks, too) more than covers the CPD requirement with the single extra day.

Shinyandnew1 · 31/08/2023 19:30

This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.

Really? No Twilights?

As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc

Riiight.

Pineapples198 · 31/08/2023 19:18

I work in admin / HR in a primary school. Our teachers do get paid over the holidays. Their contracts are 27.5 hours per week all year round (52 weeks per year). The teachers work more hours during the term than 27.5, effectively making up the hours for the rest of the year so that they can have all holidays off. As we are a primary school there is limited marking etc - most of our teachers don’t work over the summer break or maybe do a day or two.
Their job is difficult - however all our teachers leave by 4pm, have a lunch break, and don’t work all of the teacher training days as they do an hour most weeks on Mondays (3:15-4:15) This year they will only do 1 day training in school. So 4 out of 5 “teacher training” days they will just be off.
Its not a bad salary for only working 38 weeks of the year… they earn a lot more than I do. I used to work 50 hours a week in hotel sales for £18k a year, a teachers salary seems great to me. But I guess it’s all relative.

PEARLJAM123 · 31/08/2023 07:23

40andlovelife · 30/08/2023 15:12

We get paid for the 1265 hours directed time that we do. This is worked during term time, 39 weeks to be exact. Years ago it was decided that to prevent teachers experiencing hardship over the 6 weeks, that the salary would be paid over the 12 months. We do not get any paid holidays. Most teachers do work through the holidays though and I would say ALL do over the 1265 hours that we are paid for term time.

We do get some paid holidays, but the same amount as most other people.

PEARLJAM123 · 31/08/2023 07:17

It is significant because people like you keep bringing it up. It's really not hard to understand.

Zonder · 30/08/2023 23:27

@MasterBeth well congrats, you've managed a post to show people have different opinions. Was that your goal?

Zonder · 30/08/2023 23:25

@mosesherzog there are plenty of posts showing evidence of how the pay is calculated. I'm surprised you don't know, if you've been teaching 20 years.

Walkaround · 30/08/2023 22:12

TheCrystalPalace · 30/08/2023 19:34

Rude? Whatever.
I am still struggling to see why it's any of your business to "understand" other people's pay and conditions.
That's more rude, in my book.

I don’t think that’s fair - the original question was phrased unfortunately, but I think it’s considerably less rude to try to understand how an employment contract works than to express strident, negative opinions about a group of people whose situation you can’t be bothered to try to understand at all, which is the usual intention of threads which start this way.

It’s fair enough to want to understand how someone’s employment contract actually works if you are affected by strikes relating to it, as that gives you a reason to be interested in the causes of the dispute.

MistressIggi · 30/08/2023 20:39

What a patronising little thread summary. How odd.

FrippEnos · 30/08/2023 20:00

CrossStitchX · 29/08/2023 14:57

Agree it’s just semantics. I’m really not sure why teachers keep bringing it up as if they were uniquely hard done by.

But a teacher didn't bring this up and you have put forward that they think that they are hard done by.

TheCrystalPalace · 30/08/2023 19:34

Rude? Whatever.
I am still struggling to see why it's any of your business to "understand" other people's pay and conditions.
That's more rude, in my book.

mosesherzog · 30/08/2023 16:52

I think the notion that we “don’t get paid” for all of the holidays is erroneous to be honest. Fairly sure it’s not stated in contracts that our pay only applies to the 39 weeks in school, and unlike many support staff, teaching roles are not classified as “term time only”. I think it really boils down to-

Teacher’s salaries aren’t that great, and the workload is usually pretty intense.
The 13 weeks holiday is a nice perk, and goes some way towards balancing out the underwhelming pay- though this still needs to improve!

I’m always horrified to hear that teachers spend so much of their holidays working, as well as evenings and weekends. In over 20 years of teaching, I’ve always treated the holidays as precisely that, and used them to switch off and recharge from the hard work during term time- surely what anyone should reasonably expect to be able to do when on holiday.

Original poster

MasterBeth · 30/08/2023 16:03

My last contribution to this thread, to the delight of many of you...

Thanks you to everyone who was willing to engage in the spirit in which my questions were intended, especially @sparklelikeadiamond and others, who have gone to the trouble of detailing the precise wording of policies etc, which has been very helpful. (@echt and @TheCrystalPalace were just rude.)

I started of asking about the hows and whys of teachers employment and I think the hows have been answered really clearly, but the whys still feel ambiguous, even among teachers. For example:

@Takoneko thinks we shouldn’t think of holidays as unpaid.

“It’s also why I think talking about holidays as unpaid and all the extra hours as unpaid is unhelpful. It gives the impression that it’s all totally voluntary and out of the goodness of our hearts. It isn’t a choice, it is contracted and some schools stretch that elastic clause a lot further than others.”

@Zonder thinks it’s really important that we think of holidays as unpaid

It's a graduate job, I'm highly skilled in my specialisation and I've been teaching for 30 years. In many jobs I would have been on a higher salary years ago. That's why it matters that we don't get paid for the whole year. If the salary was this and I was paid for a full year it would really be a joke.

@Walkaround is very clear that it is much more than semantics

The practicalities of this are, clearly, that you need to consult a specialist legal adviser if you want an accurate answer to your question. It is silly to pretend there is no practical difference between one contract and another. When things go wrong with your employment, suddenly you notice the practical differences that you were airily claiming a week before were mere technicalities.

@TheHateIsNotGood thinks…

This thread is about if Teachers get 'holiday pay'/paid for holidays and the consensus here is that they do.

But @Pieceofpurplesky is sure that…

Regardless of anyone thinking teachers are paid for the holidays, they are not. You can argue the toss as much as you like. It's in black and white in the terms and conditions.

As many people suggest, it’s complicated and odd. My first comment on this thread was “It doesn't make sense to me.” I don’t think I’m alone:

@noblegiraffe
Teacher contracts are weird and don't fit with the world of work.

@PeggyPiglet
It's a very lazily thought out clause

@Walkaround
(Teachers’ employment contracts are ridiculous 😂)

@sparklelikeadiamond
Teacher contracts are archaic and I would welcome modernisation of them. I would like to see teachers having set working hours with annual leave entitlement, overtime pay or time off in lieu etc. it might help to keep people in the profession!

So, as teachers are not responsible for their terms and conditions, I don’t see how asking why and how their contracts are “weird and don’t fit the world of work” is teacher bashing. I would say it's the opposite – teachers arguably lose out because of it.

To repeat, I support teachers’ pay increases to (at least) reinstate pay levels from before austerity, increased teacher recruitment to lessen workload, improved pay and conditions for TAs, and higher taxes to pay for it all. I don’t agree to extending the school year, making teachers work even harder. I believe that having a weird, nonsensical, confusing contract that even teachers don’t understand doesn’t help in the wider debate about teachers’ pay. Maybe this thread proves that.

Teachers, I hope you have a good start to the term.

OP posts:

Noimnotstillonmumsne · 30/08/2023 15:40

Timeturnerplease · 29/08/2023 15:10

Teachers are paid over the holidays, not for them.

When calculating my maternity pay, I was told that a teacher’s salary is calculated at 39 weeks a year + statutory paid holiday. Any remaining time is unpaid, but salary is split equally over 12 months.

Finally. Someone answered the OP’s Q!

40andlovelife · 30/08/2023 15:12

We get paid for the 1265 hours directed time that we do. This is worked during term time, 39 weeks to be exact. Years ago it was decided that to prevent teachers experiencing hardship over the 6 weeks, that the salary would be paid over the 12 months. We do not get any paid holidays. Most teachers do work through the holidays though and I would say ALL do over the 1265 hours that we are paid for term time.