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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

460 replies

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 14:35

It doesn't make sense to me.

Some people say teachers don't get paid over the holidays. They are paid, they say, for 40 weeks, but their money is aggregated over 52 weeks and paid monthly.

What does that even mean? How is it (practically) any different to being paid (less per week) for 52 weeks?

OP posts:
mumsneedwine · 29/08/2023 16:02

@maddening not sure a teacher did bring it up. Someone asked a question, teachers answered, and the usual 'well teachers always moan they work harder than everyone else' pile on began. Which no one said ever.

Qilin · 29/08/2023 16:02

Plus also, if teachers work part-time, they still have 100% of their leave, whereas with any other profession, it's pro-rata...

Well yes, but that's because the school closure days are set by the school and/or Lea. It isn't self selecting.

It also works the other way round too, usually - ime anyway.

For example: If a part time teacher works W-F, for example, then those Monday bank holidays - they just don't get them. They aren't given pro-rata.

NewName122 · 29/08/2023 16:02

I agree with you. It is exactly the same as how my pay is worked out.

banjaxxed · 29/08/2023 16:00

Teachers quote they aren't paid for all
Holidays but they are, in reality.

If a teacher earns £30000 per annum that figure is split over 12 months so they receive £2500 per month

That's exactly the same as anyone else employed on £30000 per annum - They receive £2500 per month

The difference is that teachers work (actual teaching weeks) 39 weeks and 13 are 'holiday'. I'm not saying they take 13 weeks 'off' but it's really no different to
Someone in a private business who gets £30K and statutory 28 days annual leave (5.6 weeks)

The contracts state though (I believe) that they 'work' 195 days (they are teaching days/inset) and then they receive some holiday pay (but it's not 13 weeks)

maddening · 29/08/2023 16:00

CrossStitchX · 29/08/2023 14:57

Agree it’s just semantics. I’m really not sure why teachers keep bringing it up as if they were uniquely hard done by.

Especially as it makes their daily pay higher

Made4Sunshine · 29/08/2023 16:00

There would almost certainly far less teachers if they didn't get school holidays.

Hercisback · 29/08/2023 16:00

Usually if I worked 80% that would be matched in my holiday allowance so if everyone else got 20 days, I'd only get 16.

But your pay isn't for the holidays, your pay includes a proportion of 'holiday' pay which is 80% of a FT teachers pay.

mumsneedwine · 29/08/2023 15:59

@Countdown2023 it's not because it's cheaper. It's v likely more expensive. There probably just isn't a teacher to hire.

Nellodee · 29/08/2023 15:59

The contract teachers have is a bit odd. We didn’t choose it, but it seems like we are often being told that our contract isn’t what we think it is, we really get paid exactly the same kind of salary as everyone else and we are just being silly. No, we have a weird contract, sorry. It’s just how it is and doesn’t make vast amounts of difference, just in some minor details.

Spendonsend · 29/08/2023 15:59

Do you get paid for the weekend?

When you get your monthly pay slip it covers a time period with several weekends in it. My pay slip is for 'august'

(Is anyone left that gets paid weekly - my first job i got an envelope of cash on each friday )

mumsneedwine · 29/08/2023 15:58

Love someone starting a thread asking about teacher holiday pay and even this managed to become a teacher bashing thread, complaining we all say we work harder than everyone else. NO teacher has ever said this, in the history of mumsnet. I have a DD who is a doctor and I categorically know she works stupidly harder then me. And earns less. Now that really is criminal.

Becomingolder · 29/08/2023 15:58

Fiddlesticks24 · 29/08/2023 15:31

YABU to try and compare a teacher contract to a normal contract. Teachers are contracted to a number of hours per year plus as much time as reasonable to get the job done

Surely that's the case for many/most salaried job though? Certainly when I worked in financial services I was contracted 9-5 but there was an expectation that you'd work late/at the weekend if necessary.

The extra hours probably are expected for many salaried jobs. I was more referring to the annual rather than weekly hours making it difficult to compare with other contracts.

ProbablyLate · 29/08/2023 15:57

Tulipvase · 29/08/2023 15:54

Is that right, the pro rated holiday bit? Doesn’t seem right, not sure if I’m misunderstanding.

Show quote history

If I were to work 4 days a week, so 80% of a timetable, I'd still have 100% of the holiday since there'd be no point in me being there with no kids!

Usually if I worked 80% that would be matched in my holiday allowance so if everyone else got 20 days, I'd only get 16.

Possimpible · 29/08/2023 15:57

Clymene · 29/08/2023 15:45

@letstrythatagain

Honestly many many professions are like this. It's the world of work these day. Not right at all but I know of nobody who only works their contracted hours.

In the private sector, sure but not public sector. In every other job, people would get time off in lieu. Not teachers.

And they aren't typically still earning £40k with 15+ years of experience under their belts either.

Do you work in the public sector..? Have you seen NHS and local authority pay scales? TOIL also isn't a foregone conclusion, for full days yes, but for the odd hour here and there, no.

Imsureitsprobablymebut · 29/08/2023 15:57

Teachers are underpaid for the hours that they work. As are a lot of other professionals in other fields who work way over their contracted hours completely unpaid.

Anyone who says to contact their union about this hasn’t got a clue how raising anything with unions causes a backlash that you will pay for professionally until you move, or more likely are pushed !

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 29/08/2023 15:57

To clarify again, 1265 is not all we are paid for.

51.7. In addition to the hours a teacher is required to be available for work under
paragraph 51.5 or 51.6, a teacher must work such reasonable additional hours as
may be necessary to enable the effective discharge of the teacher’s professional
duties, including in particular planning and preparing courses and lessons; and
assessing, monitoring, recording and reporting on the learning needs, progress
and achievements of assigned pupils.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/1110990/2022_STPCD.pdf

Upwiththelark76 · 29/08/2023 15:56

mumsneedwine · 29/08/2023 15:43

And if anyone would like the cushy hours and holidays please get training. I don't know one school near me that's fully staffed next week. It's going to be an interesting year.

This ⬆️
it’s a wonder why there is such a crisis on retention and recruitment of teachers. I mean you all think it’s a cushy number . Get your degree. Complete the training and become a teacher .

Countdown2023 · 29/08/2023 15:56

A local sixth form can’t recruit for this September so they have purchased an online teaching package. I guess that’s the way the education is going. Cheaper than hiring a teacher.

viques · 29/08/2023 15:55

Meem321 · 29/08/2023 15:53

Well, actually teachers are paid for 1265 hours a year, which is worked over 190/195 days (I forget which).
However, the pay for the 1265 hours is split over 12 months.

Of course, you'd be hard pushed to find a teacher, regardless of experience, who doesn't work many more that those hours. Unpaid.

Show quote history

195 days for teachers.

190 days for pupils.

Thank you Mr Baker.

mumsneedwine · 29/08/2023 15:55

@BlueWhippets that's because we are a bunch of work shy, lazy, moaning pains who sit around drinking gin all day 🤓.
Again, if you think the job is so easy and well paid please join us. We are pretty desperate!

Oh and I used to work in the city in the 80/90s, when it was cool to live in the office. Was much easier than teaching. And a hell of a lot better paid (I now earn 1/3 of my 1999 salary).

Tulipvase · 29/08/2023 15:54

Sunnydays41 · 29/08/2023 15:49

However, if you were fortunate enough that maternity leave ended just before a major holiday, ie the summer, Christmas or Easter holidays, you could go back to work for a day or two, then get paid over the holidays, thus extending it that way... Obviously not everyone can do that... though a good proportion of the teachers I know have been able to

Plus also, if teachers work part-time, they still have 100% of their leave, whereas with any other profession, it's pro-rata...

Swings and roundabouts...

Show quote history

Is that right, the pro rated holiday bit? Doesn’t seem right, not sure if I’m misunderstanding.

viques · 29/08/2023 15:54

Whichwhatnow · 29/08/2023 15:30

Exactly. I don't know anyone who just works 9-5. Everyone I know in a professional career has opted out of the working time directive! I actually used to work in an office with sleeping pods so we could all work overnight and through to the next day with an hour of sleep. I averaged 70 hours a week for my first 2 years! Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against teachers - apart from the victim complex some seem to have. Teachers really don't have a monopoly on hard work!

Show quote history

Teachers really don’t have a monopoly on hard work

This is true, but it does get very wearing having to explain the holiday business year after year.

And nowadays teachers also have to fight to protect their hard won working pay and conditions against relentless attempts by ruthless bodies ,such as some of the Academy chains, to whittle them down . Gone are the days when every school in the country recognised the Burgundy Book agreements.

Hercisback · 29/08/2023 15:54

*Plus also, if teachers work part-time, they still have 100% of their leave, whereas with any other profession, it's pro-rata...

But we don't get any bookable leave....

Teachers are finding ways round the holidays and being paid, using shared parental leave.

Meem321 · 29/08/2023 15:53

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 14:47

You make an excellent semantic point. They do indeed get paid over the holidays. That is unquestionable, because they get 12 equal monthly payments.

So, what I really should have asked is AIBU to think teachers DO get paid for the holidays?

In what practical sense do they not get paid for the holidays? Teachers are not paid hourly.

Show quote history

Well, actually teachers are paid for 1265 hours a year, which is worked over 190/195 days (I forget which).
However, the pay for the 1265 hours is split over 12 months.

Of course, you'd be hard pushed to find a teacher, regardless of experience, who doesn't work many more that those hours. Unpaid.

Qilin · 29/08/2023 15:53

fuckityfuckityfuckfuck · 29/08/2023 15:01

Because a full time equivalent job (i.e. 48 weeks + 4 weeks paid hol) with similar responsibilities and workload as an average classroom teacher would earn significantly more than £30/£40 k. It's only considerable as a justifiable salary if its only renumeration for 39 weeks.

It's almost always, ime, only mentioned after provocation or criticism regarding '13 weeks holiday' or comments about making the school holidays shorter.

And the reality is that if school holidays were reduced then yes, teachers would need to be paid more. They would be doing more contact hours, and have an increased work load as a result.