...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

Not if they are a LA maintained school - there are fixed pay bands and woe betide the school that messes with them.

There is clearly a significant legal difference between a teacher’s employment contract and a more standard employment contract, or teachers would not keep bringing this up. The fact is, if you are entitled to less holiday pay than the number of days you are not physically expected to work and this is not your choice but written into your contract, and you have no choice over the timing of those unpaid days, because you are not allowed to take them off in term time, then you are not being facetious to point out you are not paid for the whole year - unlike someone who is contracted to work all year and gets an annual paid holiday entitlement and may, at the employer’s discretion, if they ask for it, get unpaid holiday when they want it. I’m sure someone who had just negotiated some unpaid holiday would not be happy if they then found themselves having to work over that time in order to deal with their workload.

It’s lucky that people who don’t care what the legal implications of different employment contract terms and conditions might be in terms of paid holiday entitlement, pensions, working well in excess of contracted hours, etc, have nothing whatsoever to do with negotiating fair employment terms and conditions for workers and protecting their rights, as if they were, we’d probably still be at the level of development of sending children out to work at age 7, working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, and not having any paid holiday entitlement.

But they aren’t 65 days paid holiday?

Teachers aren’t paid for the holidays, but they do get a certain amount of paid holiday. Presumably a part time teacher only gets the pro rated holiday pay?

This is really confusing me! I see what you are saying, but I just don’t think it means part time teachers are so much better off?!

Not a teacher, I’m school office. I get paid for 39 weeks of work per annum. Those 39 weeks are fixed dates - I can’t request any time off during term time (no BIL not even for your fourth wedding). My yearly pay is divided by twelve so yes, I get paid DURING the holidays but not FOR the holidays.

Yes, obviously I know it would be impossible for part-time teachers to get part-time holiday, I was just using that as an example of swings/roundabouts in teaching versus other professions!

So they can if they want an nobody complains.

Well, a teacher on 3 days a week would still get 65 days a year holiday, same as a teacher working 5 days a week... (Minus the prep, etc)

@MasterBeth but do you go into work during those 4 weeks of holiday ? I'm here now in my unpaid holiday, as otherwise their won't be any lessons next week. They don't prepare themselves unfortunately.
Not saying I work harder than snot other job, but am saying I don't have a cushion little number with loads of holiday.

A lot of teachers work insanely long hours marking and prepping and speaking to worried parents and running after school clubs and performances and parent-teacher meetings and staff meetings after a day's teaching from 8am to 4pm. So the long holidays partly allow for toiL. And most teachers spend a proportion of the holidays prepping and planning. those who don't are very established and deserve to be on a higher pay grade anyway, so it evens out. They are still underpaid, undervalued and under respected in our feckless greedy society.

Leaving aside whether holidays are paid or not, I think we can be confident that if teachers contracts were changed so that they needed to be available for work for more than 195 days, there would be a bigger retention crisis than there is now.

And yet a lot of schools in Cornwall are struggling to recruit teachers...

Average salaries are only part of the picture. You also need to look at housing costs, how easy it is to find that housing, cost of commuting etc.

Supply teachers are different again, though, and on different contracts.

@Birch101 😘 please become education secretary

It’s parents who always go on about school holidays because they are fed up having to actually look after their own children and plan childcare. The point is that they don’t get paid for these holidays, they get an annual salary split across 12 months. If people want the kids in school more then they will need to be paid more. Same stories spouted out all the time about teachers. Teacher strike for pay- ‘ffs I couldn’t do the job but what a cheek with all the holidays they get. As if the kids need more time off when they are constantly off for holidays.’

As far as I’m aware most jobs get 4 weeks paid holiday entitlement. Yes there are other jobs that have the same set up but then they don’t have a whole bunch of people complaining that they dared take a 4 week holiday in the summer.

I worked in a construction / design role and it was the same 37.5hrs a week plus whatever needed to get the job done.
My partner works in the same industry (design consultant) he gets paid for any additional hours.
I worked in a different firm for a while I got TOIL for additional hours.

You then realize the firms that don't pay you for your additional hours or at a minimum TOIL are the ones you don't work for.

People should get paid for the hours they work, unless they are taking the mick

But it's somewhat irrelevant what the contracted hours are because that applies to everyone

I take a job on £30k per annum. It comes with 30 days leave so a straight 6 weeks.

I get paid £2500 per month (regardless of how many hours I work in that month or I am on holiday)

My contract states 40 hours but generally I do 42/43 for the 46 weeks I am at work.

As a teacher, I am contracted to 32.5 ish hour working week for 39 weeks.

I receive £2500 per month. Regardless of whether I am teaching/ prepping/ or sitting at home on hols.

I get that it's done to even out payments but that fact remains that whether you are teaching, prepping or sitting on a sun lounger in Benidorm in august you are still getting that £2500 in your salary each month so whilst you are on holiday you are still receiving payment.

My example above, that individual would be contracted to work 1840 hours in the 46 weeks they are at work; that's 50% more than a teacher for the same amount of money each month.

Yes and no. Our contracts are weird. Teachers are paid for holidays, but can’t be required to work in them. We are salaried workers and our salary covers pay our 195 working days, our statutory holiday entitlement and any other reasonable hours needed to do our jobs at a time and place of our choosing.

Teaching unions have different advice for supply teachers to ensure they get paid whatever portion they are due of their statutory holiday entitlement of 5.6 weeks, but that’s not relevant for teachers employed directly in schools because we have a contract that agreed a certain amount of pay for a certain number of days and a certain amount of holiday.

People who say things like “I’ve been marking in my unpaid holiday” are wrong. Pay for marking is part of the “any other hours” bit that we are paid for.

However, people who say things like “There’s too many school holidays, they should be cut down” are also wrong if they think that can be done without a renegotiation of teacher contracts and salaries. Teachers could reasonably expect the annual salary to rise if their working days increased. A reasonable salary for 195 working days is different to a reasonable salary for say 220 working days.

You are not only paid to work directed hours. You are paid to carry out the responsibilities of your role, including but not limited to directed time of up to 1265 hours. The STPCD is very clear that you are expected to work hours in addition to directed time.

It’s not teachers banging on about holidays , it is people who aren’t teachers who bang on about holidays.

This!

I used to be a payroll manager, not in education. I paid staff who took six weeks off in the summer and two at Easter and then used their paid holidays for the other school holidays. So we reduced their pay by 8 weeks so take their annual salary, divide it by 52 and then multiply it by 44, so they were paid for 44 weeks a year but we paid it in 12 payments. So yes they got money in the bank once a month like everyone else but they collected less money, equivalent to 8 weeks wages over the year. So they weren't paid for the summer and Easter holidays but they did actually get money in the bank. I hope that makes sense.

Teachers get paid IN the holidays, but not FOR the holidays.

They are paid for 195 days work per year.

These days happen in term time.

But their salary (to make things easier for the Local Authority) is divided into 12 equal monthly segments.

In fact, their salary could be divided into (approximately) 9 months, and then be unpaid for (approximately) 3 months as this would better reflect their contracted hours.

@Ohthatsabitshit we can resign at 3 points in the year. And have to work half a terms notice.

If you resign can you do it after the holidays?

Parttime teachers get 100% of the holidays off, but only 80% (or whatever) of the pay.
Same as them having their PPA and pension contributions reduced.