Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

...to think teachers DO get paid over the holidays?

460 replies

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 14:35

It doesn't make sense to me.

Some people say teachers don't get paid over the holidays. They are paid, they say, for 40 weeks, but their money is aggregated over 52 weeks and paid monthly.

What does that even mean? How is it (practically) any different to being paid (less per week) for 52 weeks?

OP posts:
Walkaround · 29/08/2023 17:37

@MasterBeth - if you asked tour employer for 3 weeks off, unpaid and they agreed to this, then you had to work from home anyway, but they still didn’t pay you for that time, you’d be pissed off, wouldn’t you? Unpaid time is unpaid time.

softsweets · 29/08/2023 17:36

I'm on the 'support staff' pay scale in a school, my annual salary is £31k .. my actually annual salary is £27k. I work 40hrs a week term time only.

A teacher role will be advertised at (ie) £35k and they will receive £35k - any annualising equations have already been made if that makes sense.

Autieangel · 29/08/2023 17:34

A teachers salary is 28k they get paid 28k

A TA salary is 20k they will get 17k (39 weeks plus 5 weeks hols)

That's the difference.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/08/2023 17:33

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:25

I don't think I have ever had my pay broekn down into a hourly rate. Not since I was working in Bejam* as a Saturday job in the sixth form.

(*Ask your parents)

Show quote history

It's been on every computer generated payslip I have ever received or produced for others since 1992. I've worked for the NHS, schools, local authorities, insurance companies and accountants - all salaried roles, but all automatically included the hours worked and the hourly rate.

Tulipvase · 29/08/2023 17:27

Italiandreams · 29/08/2023 17:20

@Sunnydays41 if a part time teacher worked 1 day a week, they would get the equivalent of 13 weeks holiday the same as all teachers. They are only paid 1 day a week. A non teacher who worked one day a week may get the equivalent of 4 weeks holiday also only paid one day a week. It may only be 4 days but you are not going to book fours days in the same week as you are not contacted to work those days. To book a weeks holiday you would only need to use one day. I don’t think there is any advantage there.

I think this is what I’m trying to say.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:25

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/08/2023 17:22

It's broken down into hours on the payslip. Like most people, salaried or not.

Show quote history

I don't think I have ever had my pay broekn down into a hourly rate. Not since I was working in Bejam* as a Saturday job in the sixth form.

(*Ask your parents)

OP posts:
Newbutoldfather · 29/08/2023 17:24

It’s just semantics.

you can either see them working 38 or so weeks at a higher salary or 52 weeks at a lower one.

Either way, to be honest, teachers are underpaid for what they do, especially in the STEM subjects, This is evidenced in the teacher shortage that we have.

momtoboys · 29/08/2023 17:23

Oh, dear....

TheFallenMadonna · 29/08/2023 17:23

If a teacher doesn't work for a day (unpaid leave or strike day), they lose 1/365 annual salary.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/08/2023 17:22

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:13

But teachers aren't paid an hourly rate, they are paid an annual salary.

Show quote history

It's broken down into hours on the payslip. Like most people, salaried or not.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:21

Meem321 · 29/08/2023 17:18

Hmmm, my County Council wage slip actually breaks my salary down into hourly pay too. So the people paying me are breaking it down into an hourly wage. Of course, the hourly wage is only multiplied by the 1265 I'm contracted to work. When you calculate what we as teachers actually work, the hourly rate falls significantly.

Show quote history

Does anyone know what the purpose of breaking this into an hourly rate is?

OP posts:
Italiandreams · 29/08/2023 17:20

@Sunnydays41 if a part time teacher worked 1 day a week, they would get the equivalent of 13 weeks holiday the same as all teachers. They are only paid 1 day a week. A non teacher who worked one day a week may get the equivalent of 4 weeks holiday also only paid one day a week. It may only be 4 days but you are not going to book fours days in the same week as you are not contacted to work those days. To book a weeks holiday you would only need to use one day. I don’t think there is any advantage there.

ihadamarveloustime · 29/08/2023 17:19

Teachers do not get paid over the holidays. They get paid for their teaching weeks plus 5 weeks of holiday or so like everyone else.

What they do 'get' to do is instead of taking all the money they would have earned each week is to have a percentage deducted and paid out at a later time to cover the non-paid weeks.

WombatChocolate · 29/08/2023 17:19

If a teacher works an extra day (for example, a part timer working an extra inset day) do they get paid 1/365 or 1/195 or something else? What does this tell us about what they are and aren’t paid for?

Meem321 · 29/08/2023 17:18

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:13

But teachers aren't paid an hourly rate, they are paid an annual salary.

Show quote history

Hmmm, my County Council wage slip actually breaks my salary down into hourly pay too. So the people paying me are breaking it down into an hourly wage. Of course, the hourly wage is only multiplied by the 1265 I'm contracted to work. When you calculate what we as teachers actually work, the hourly rate falls significantly.

Shinyandnew1 · 29/08/2023 17:17

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:08

What %-age of schools are still LA maintained. Aren't most Academies now?

Show quote history

Well over half are still LA here.

Meem321 · 29/08/2023 17:15

catlady2222 · 29/08/2023 16:09

It's all BS. You get paid say £28k. You get the same £28k as anyone else gets. Monthly salary. 12 equal instalments. The holidays are part of the package so to speak.

TA's on the other hand don't get paid during the holidays and neither do most office staff.

Well that's BS too. TAs work 39 weeks a year and get 12 monthly payments just like teachers.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:13

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/08/2023 17:10

The August pay is paying the employee the 20% of wages that have been held back through the year. Other roles in other sectors based upon an hourly contract usually receive pay for what they have actually done each month - which can be problematic if those businesses were closed for 1-2 weeks every couple of months, as they'd see a drop in income.

Somebody on the equivalent hourly rate but employed full time, year round without compulsory closure periods would receive significantly more each month.

But teachers aren't paid an hourly rate, they are paid an annual salary.

OP posts:
Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:12

There is clearly a significant legal difference between a teacher’s employment contract and a more standard employment contract, or teachers would not keep bringing this up.

I wish someone would tell me what it is, then!

The fact is, if you are entitled to less holiday pay than the number of days you are not physically expected to work and this is not your choice but written into your contract, and you have no choice over the timing of those unpaid days, because you are not allowed to take them off in term time, then you are not being facetious to point out you are not paid for the whole year - unlike someone who is contracted to work all year and gets an annual paid holiday entitlement and may, at the employer’s discretion, if they ask for it, get unpaid holiday when they want it.

And I wish I was clever enough to understand this very long sentence.

OP posts:
Sunnydays41 · 29/08/2023 17:11

Tulipvase · 29/08/2023 17:04

But they aren’t 65 days paid holiday?

Teachers aren’t paid for the holidays, but they do get a certain amount of paid holiday. Presumably a part time teacher only gets the pro rated holiday pay?

This is really confusing me! I see what you are saying, but I just don’t think it means part time teachers are so much better off?!

Show quote history

I'm not talking about pay though, I'm talking about part-time teachers benefiting from extra time off work, comparatively. Theoretically a teacher could work one day a week and still have 65 days holiday a year.

My original comment was in response to the PP who stated that teachers lose out by not accumulating annual leave when they go on maternity leave. I suggested that if they returned part-time, they would gain in comparison to the non-teacher by not having pro-rated annual leave. Swings and roundabouts!!

InOffice · 29/08/2023 17:11

MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:08

What %-age of schools are still LA maintained. Aren't most Academies now?

Show quote history

It depends on the LA. Where I used to work (Tory controlled Shire county) we were down to a handful of small primaries still maintained. Now in a Labour controlled London Borough, academies are the minority even for secondaries.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/08/2023 17:10

The August pay is paying the employee the 20% of wages that have been held back through the year. Other roles in other sectors based upon an hourly contract usually receive pay for what they have actually done each month - which can be problematic if those businesses were closed for 1-2 weeks every couple of months, as they'd see a drop in income.

Somebody on the equivalent hourly rate but employed full time, year round without compulsory closure periods would receive significantly more each month.

Original poster
MasterBeth · 29/08/2023 17:08

Walkaround · 29/08/2023 17:06

Not if they are a LA maintained school - there are fixed pay bands and woe betide the school that messes with them.

There is clearly a significant legal difference between a teacher’s employment contract and a more standard employment contract, or teachers would not keep bringing this up. The fact is, if you are entitled to less holiday pay than the number of days you are not physically expected to work and this is not your choice but written into your contract, and you have no choice over the timing of those unpaid days, because you are not allowed to take them off in term time, then you are not being facetious to point out you are not paid for the whole year - unlike someone who is contracted to work all year and gets an annual paid holiday entitlement and may, at the employer’s discretion, if they ask for it, get unpaid holiday when they want it. I’m sure someone who had just negotiated some unpaid holiday would not be happy if they then found themselves having to work over that time in order to deal with their workload.

It’s lucky that people who don’t care what the legal implications of different employment contract terms and conditions might be in terms of paid holiday entitlement, pensions, working well in excess of contracted hours, etc, have nothing whatsoever to do with negotiating fair employment terms and conditions for workers and protecting their rights, as if they were, we’d probably still be at the level of development of sending children out to work at age 7, working 6 days a week, 12 hours a day, and not having any paid holiday entitlement.

Show quote history

What %-age of schools are still LA maintained. Aren't most Academies now?

OP posts:
porridgeisbae · 29/08/2023 17:07

Of course they do- well they get a yearly/monthly salary (assuming they're not self-employed) and they still get that over the summer.

There's also a lot of summer schools etc, work they can get over the summer if they want it.

Tulipvase · 29/08/2023 17:06

HideTheCroissants · 29/08/2023 17:02

Not a teacher, I’m school office. I get paid for 39 weeks of work per annum. Those 39 weeks are fixed dates - I can’t request any time off during term time (no BIL not even for your fourth wedding). My yearly pay is divided by twelve so yes, I get paid DURING the holidays but not FOR the holidays.

You should still get paid some paid holidays though? Prob about 4/5 weeks.