Page 5 | Climate change and not having kids

Appleofmyeye2023 · 2023-08-21T09:34:33+00:00

Not really AIBU, more chat and getting insight DS up visiting this weekend. Aged 29 , living with partner in London and can’t afford to buy yet. So, really not ready to think about marriage or babies etc but, we got chatting and it came up that his partner was opposed to having kids , and he was a bit, because it would be cruel and horrendous for them, that by the time those kids got to their 50s and 60s the world would be so effected by climate change that it would be at war for precious resources, thousands of people dying, and mass migration to find a way to survive . im of the view, that yep, while things will get a lot tougher, humans have a capacity to make changes and adapt - technology will develop to meet those challenges, but all the time there isn’t a literal burning platform in developed countries, there won’t be the pressure and will politically to throw resources to really solve the issue- we’re playing around with the low hanging fruit currently, but things have to get a lot worse before there is a collective and money to really tackle climate change. So, I’m a bit more optimistic on this one. It seems so sad for that generation to be so “we’re doomed” to stop having children? I am wondering, how common is this amongst the late 20s and early 30s generation? Or is this a bit extreme? Should say they are both pretty intelligent and DS’s partner works in field of sustainability in developing countries, has lived all over the world, she’s not British by birth, and is not a conspiracy theorist !

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:49

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:47

Well maybe previous generations should have planned better on how they'd manage this situation? There's nothing stopping them from taking action now to address the situation, other than they don't want to as it'll impact their standard of living.

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This is a genuine question - what do you mean? What actions could they take? Population collapse is caused by the next generation choosing not to have children, the previous generation doesn't have control over that.

floribunda18 · 21/08/2023 12:49

There have always been reasons not to have kids at any point in human history. It's only extremely recently that there has been a choice in the matter.

mydogisthebest · 21/08/2023 12:49

Well me and DH decided over 40 years ago that bringing children into this world was not a good idea. We mainly based that on overpopulation but now as well as the UK being far too overcrowded there is also climate change that makes us so so glad we made the right choice.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:47

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:30

You don't seem to understand, it's not about number of people, it's about balance. Previous generations had a lot more children than the current generation. Those people already exist and will get old. Without a supply of younger people, there will be a huge imbalance. It's fine for the population to go down, in fact, it's a good thing. But it's not a good thing for one generation to just opt out of having children wholesale - a huge sudden drop is not manageable.

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Well maybe previous generations should have planned better on how they'd manage this situation? There's nothing stopping them from taking action now to address the situation, other than they don't want to as it'll impact their standard of living.

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:46

Utahthecat · 21/08/2023 12:44

Ireland's population is still not at 1845 levels after a ma-made famine, and in the past women had less/no choice about family planning. It is only relatively recently women have had access to reliable contraception and the ability to plan families....

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True. That doesn't change the fact that people kept going in the face of huge obstacles and I'm bloody glad they did!

crosstheriver · 21/08/2023 12:45

Climate change is one of the reasons I don’t have children, but it’s by no means the primary one. Far higher up the list is that there are plenty of children and if I really wanted to look after one, I could consider adoption.

I just don’t think my genes are amazing enough to warrant passing them on. The world will do just fine without another me.

Utahthecat · 21/08/2023 12:44

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:26

I wonder what makes people so sure that, after millions of years, this is the generation that won't be able to cope. If I look back to 1860s Ireland I see a country devastated by famine and emigration - at the point people could have said 'no point in having children, let's just stop' but they didn't and now Ireland is a fantastic place to live with huge opportunity. Every generation has had challenges - sometimes massive ones - but this decision to just not carry on seems to be new (or maybe not spoken about so much in previous generations?)

Ireland's population is still not at 1845 levels after a ma-made famine, and in the past women had less/no choice about family planning. It is only relatively recently women have had access to reliable contraception and the ability to plan families....

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:43

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:37

The challenges of the past didn't tent to be global and / or permanent in their nature i.e., you could move somewhere or wait it out.

Climate change on the other hand IS permanent and global. For example, there's about a 2.5% reduction in total insect mass recorded every year and this is already impacting other areas including food production and flora / fauna biodiversity.

How do you propose someone in Ireland or Nigeria or Brazil cope when yeilds from global food systems become severely
reduced and / or collapse?

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What I'm wondering is why no one imagines things could be different? As in, that the disaster scenario isn't inevitable? Or that yes there will be horrible times but we'll get through as before and a new equilibrium will be found?

In the 50s and 60s there was the constant threat of nuclear war and some were convinced the world was going to end - ie a global threat. Had people made a decision not to have children based on that they'd find it wasn't necessary - their child would be in its 60s or 70s and likely have had a pretty ordinary life. The world could end tomorrow due to some unforeseen circumstance. Who knows?

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:37

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:26

I wonder what makes people so sure that, after millions of years, this is the generation that won't be able to cope. If I look back to 1860s Ireland I see a country devastated by famine and emigration - at the point people could have said 'no point in having children, let's just stop' but they didn't and now Ireland is a fantastic place to live with huge opportunity. Every generation has had challenges - sometimes massive ones - but this decision to just not carry on seems to be new (or maybe not spoken about so much in previous generations?)

The challenges of the past didn't tent to be global and / or permanent in their nature i.e., you could move somewhere or wait it out.

Climate change on the other hand IS permanent and global. For example, there's about a 2.5% reduction in total insect mass recorded every year and this is already impacting other areas including food production and flora / fauna biodiversity.

How do you propose someone in Ireland or Nigeria or Brazil cope when yeilds from global food systems become severely
reduced and / or collapse?

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:34

user1469908434 · 21/08/2023 12:30

Ridiculous reasoning…are you really condoning breeding children to look after you in your old age? You might be in for a nasty shock if they have other ideas!

A lot of jobs, including care of the elderly will be replaced with technology, AI, robots, so less people is a good thing all round in my opinion, especially for the environment.

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What an extremely odd thing to say.

Let me explain more clearly. I thought this was easy to understand but it's not.

If you have billions of elderly people but a lack of younger people to grow food, there will be a food shortage.

If you have billions of elderly people but a lack of younger people to provide medical care, there will be a lack of medical care.

If you have billions of elderly people but no younger people to run the transport system, it will fall apart.

If you have a particular country full of retired people and a lack of younger people in work and paying taxes, the country will struggle economically.

It might be true that when you're elderly a robot will give you your pills. Who will service that robot? Who will repair it when it breaks? Who will talk to you, take you out for a walk?

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:30

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:27

Do you really think just adding more and more people into the equation will solve that issue?

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You don't seem to understand, it's not about number of people, it's about balance. Previous generations had a lot more children than the current generation. Those people already exist and will get old. Without a supply of younger people, there will be a huge imbalance. It's fine for the population to go down, in fact, it's a good thing. But it's not a good thing for one generation to just opt out of having children wholesale - a huge sudden drop is not manageable.

user1469908434 · 21/08/2023 12:30

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:10

The ironic thing is that people who choose not to have children are the ones who are going to cause huge problems. Who on earth do they expect to keep the world functioning? The world needs a good balance of older and younger people so that water comes from the taps and food gets grown - population collapse is a major problem. Masses of elderly people with no younger generation to care for them is a disaster.

Ridiculous reasoning…are you really condoning breeding children to look after you in your old age? You might be in for a nasty shock if they have other ideas!

A lot of jobs, including care of the elderly will be replaced with technology, AI, robots, so less people is a good thing all round in my opinion, especially for the environment.

40andlovelife · 21/08/2023 12:29

There's loads of research that concludes that under population is the biggest threat ! Where have people been? Are you only reading within an echo chamber?

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:28

gimmeonemargarita · 21/08/2023 12:26

People that don’t believe those who say climate change is the reason they don’t have kids...why not? Those people usually care more and want to look after the living beings & nature that are alive now. Not some make believe baby that doesn’t exist!

To use your own reasoning, people are basing their decision on something that may or may not happen in the future - a 'make believe' future. What if they find in their later years that none of the dire predictions came true?

On a slightly related note, I don't think someone having a difficult life is any reason for them not to exist. My children might have an extremely rough time. I'm still very glad they're here.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:27

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:22

You think it's fine to have billions of elderly people and not enough young people to keep the world running?

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Do you really think just adding more and more people into the equation will solve that issue?

gimmeonemargarita · 21/08/2023 12:26

People that don’t believe those who say climate change is the reason they don’t have kids...why not? Those people usually care more and want to look after the living beings & nature that are alive now. Not some make believe baby that doesn’t exist!

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:26

I wonder what makes people so sure that, after millions of years, this is the generation that won't be able to cope. If I look back to 1860s Ireland I see a country devastated by famine and emigration - at the point people could have said 'no point in having children, let's just stop' but they didn't and now Ireland is a fantastic place to live with huge opportunity. Every generation has had challenges - sometimes massive ones - but this decision to just not carry on seems to be new (or maybe not spoken about so much in previous generations?)

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:22

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 21/08/2023 12:16

This is absurd.

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You think it's fine to have billions of elderly people and not enough young people to keep the world running?

OilOfRoses · 21/08/2023 12:16

I can understand why young people might choose not to have children (even with things other than environment) and I don't think I'll have any grandchildren. From that perspective, I feel free from worry about what happens in 100+ years. With or without us, this earth will continue.

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 21/08/2023 12:16

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:10

The ironic thing is that people who choose not to have children are the ones who are going to cause huge problems. Who on earth do they expect to keep the world functioning? The world needs a good balance of older and younger people so that water comes from the taps and food gets grown - population collapse is a major problem. Masses of elderly people with no younger generation to care for them is a disaster.

This is absurd.

babbscrabbs · 21/08/2023 12:13

BallaiLuimni · 21/08/2023 12:10

The ironic thing is that people who choose not to have children are the ones who are going to cause huge problems. Who on earth do they expect to keep the world functioning? The world needs a good balance of older and younger people so that water comes from the taps and food gets grown - population collapse is a major problem. Masses of elderly people with no younger generation to care for them is a disaster.

Well maybe in that case everyone needs to pull their finger out and put pressure on their govts to make changes, now. Because it's happening, unless they have a reason to have hope.

Instead lots are slagging off Just Stop Oil and ignoring the fact our Prime Minister is green lighting 1000s of new gas and oil projects.

40andlovelife · 21/08/2023 12:12

@Helpfulperson123

You must have a very low tolerance bless your heart

ZeldaWillTellYourFortune · 21/08/2023 12:12

TheaBrandt · 21/08/2023 10:45

And yet there are threads on here with women merrily planning to ttc their third
or even fourth child. Deluded

Agree.

The planet is burning and it's not going to magically revert to health.

babbscrabbs · 21/08/2023 12:11

Utahthecat · 21/08/2023 11:02

My kids are teens and I am not counting on any grandchildren I am already v concerned about whether they will have much quality of life due to climate change. My husband was totally anti more than two for environmental reasons.

I do think things are going to get a lot worse more quickly than we thought. The fact she works in sustainability is very telling - all the indicators are flashing red right now and every thing is tipping a lot more quickly than even climate scientists thought. She is being very logical - of course having kids is also emotional so people will continue to have kids no matter how horrible the environment is

Same.

It's tough as we want to have hope, but I would not encourage my DC to have DC if things go the way they look like they're going.

Thebestwaytoscareatory · 21/08/2023 12:11

I think there's a generational divide on this. There's a tendency for older generations to bury their heads in the sand with regards to climate change and say "don't worry, it will all work out".

Whereas for younger generations they can see just how badly managed and run the planet is, how little effort is being put into making changes and how much resistance is being put up against even those small attempts to mitigate disaster.

You also have to remember that millennials are the first generation to be financially, environmentally, and societally worse off than their parents (at least in Western/ developed countries), which means their priorities won't align to the previous generation(s).