Has anyone had a baby via surrogacy?

The one woman I've followed on Instagram certainly claims for "loss of earnings" ie she does the surrogacy in place of her usual paid work. On the BBC documentary from a few years ago (which was incredibly uncritical of a financially unstable, young woman "using her own egg" ie selling her own actual baby) I'm sure that the intended parents found her a nicer flat and paid for a year's rent.

'Expenses' is that like when someone is self employed and works from home and puts just about every household purchase and their gas/electric etc they have through their expenses, so they get a 'tax break'?

School shoes? Yeah it's providing equipment for new trainees.
Alcohol? Yep that's an entertaining of clients expense.
Condoms? Hmmm... Well I'm sure I can think of a justification there too just give me five minutes

No.

Buying and selling human beings, of any age and for any purpose, is not acceptable.

What do you think though? Do you think a trade in human beings is ok?

Would it be okay for a woman already pregnant to sell her baby to an unrelated couple?

And does the family court have access to all bank accounts in the name of the surrogate and the purchaser and their families to ensure no additional money has changed hands?
If I wanted to give a large sum of money to someone without anyone finding out there are plenty of ways to do that

All of these costings need to be documented and they get scrutinised by a family court. The surrogate would only be paid "reasonable expenses", ie things such as the aforementioned expenses which they have spent money on. No one makes a profit out of it. So this "buying a baby" nonsense is factually incorrect.

So these expenses are scrutinised by a family court, what happens if what has been paid is not considered 'reasonable', does the surrogate mother pay it back via the court?

If the baby isn't handed over does the surrogate mother pay the money back for the expenses or does she have to hand the baby over as she provided a service in exchange for 'expenses'?

If the expenses are for pregnancy expenses is this the service the commissioning parents are paying for and the 'end product' - the baby - just happens to be there, is the baby not the end goal?

What happens if the baby isn't born perfect or tragically is stillborn, does the surrogate mother pay back the expenses money as she only provided half of the service and didn't meet the agreement?

That's BS. You can't do IVF private or NHS if you're 'morbidly obese'.

The poster never said anything about IVF. This could be traditional surrogacy.

some of these stories and statistics the posters have just pulled from their own arses.

Mine are from official sources.

"MBRRACE-UK is national collaborative programme of work involving the surveillance and investigation of maternal deaths."

www.npeu.ox.ac.uk/mbrrace-uk

See the resources thread posted upthread for national and international stories of real life experiences as originally requested by the OP.

Undermining or dismissing these demonstrates a wilful ignorance and an inability to absorb information and examples that don't meet with your views.

I don't agree with surrogacy but I've read many a story about how lovely it is, for all involved, including posts here. I don't simply dismiss them as being pulled from peoples arses.

So all those pregnant women in Ukraine were just doing it to cover expenses? Ethical considerations don’t stop at the Channel.

All that's paid are expenses.

Oh you sweet summer child. How naive.

Regardless of your views on surrogacy, this simply isn’t true. My very good friend used a surrogate and the money that changed hands was far more than just expenses. The surrogate claimed for things like spa weekends, her food shopping etc etc. The surrogate very definitely made a profit and used it to take her own family on holiday. I believe it came to over £25k. This is all standard and not an extreme case.

You do however choose whether to be an unhelpful and arrogant...poster.

And on top of what you've mentioned, an adopted baby may also have been subject to drug or alcohol use in utero, the mother may have been living under severe stress from domestic abuse, homelessness etc.

I do think surrogacy outcomes are different from adoption outcomes. I don't think that the evidence to show that people who are adopted can have life long trauma can also be used to describe children who have come into the world through surrogacy. Too many completely different factors at play.

I've only ever heard people speak about surrogacy in a positive manner, if they felt a certain way about it why would they feel the need to hide it? It's not like I've ever expressed any interest in surrogacy.

I actually don't agree with surrogacy unless it's altruistic for several reasons but some of the rubbish I've read on here to try and deter the OP is just a farce, some of these stories and statistics the posters have just pulled from their own arses.

Why do people talk about "buying" a baby? Do people genuinely think that a sum of money is handed over in exchange for a child?

All that's paid are expenses. So the surrogate writes down everything that will cost them money during the course of the pregnancy. Pregnancy vitamins, the cost of maternity clothes, the cost of travel to appointments, if they will need any massage therapy/physio etc due to any, for example, back problems during pregnancy. The pregnant woman may need a cleaner during the last couple of months of the pregnancy if they're anything like me and it hurt to stand for more than 5 minutes. Then post birth, if the surrogate only gets SMP, the intended parents could, by agreement, top up the difference between SMP and the surrogates usual wage, for a certain length of time, maybe a 6 month period or so.

All of these costings need to be documented and they get scrutinised by a family court. The surrogate would only be paid "reasonable expenses", ie things such as the aforementioned expenses which they have spent money on. No one makes a profit out of it. So this "buying a baby" nonsense is factually incorrect.

Of course there is a difference! Most adopted children have been born into some sort of trauma and may have experienced early abuse. Even if they haven't there can be a feeling of being rejected by a parent or not good enough or they weren't loved.

For those saying a baby taken from its birth mother will be traumatised as that's all they know, what about babies who spend weeks or months in NICU? Are they traumatised too? Genuine question, what's the difference?

Na. They are just more polite and less willing to say what they really think.

That's BS. You can't do IVF private or NHS if you're 'morbidly obese'.

I'd never heard such views on surrogacy before joining MN, thankfully in real life people are a little more measured on the subject.

Some of the stuff on here is just utter BS anyway, a baby only being settled by its bio mother straight after its born, total BS.

I'm sorry for some of the stuff you have to read on here. A lot of these women wouldn't have a clue how infertility can effect you and when your only option is surrogacy it must be even tougher. I hope you come to a decision that you can make peace with

So with IVF whose life are you risking?

NOT SOMEONE ELSE's.

The problem with surrogacy that you CAN NOT get around is that you NEVER get Hollywood Women acting as surrogates. Its always the ultra rich who buy off the poorer.

OR you have this emotional issue where someone asks a close friend or family member. And the problem with this is you can't get away from the guilt issue and feeling of obligation to help. However this may risk the relationship because of the emotions and stress involved and/or may be coercive in nature. It is IMPOSSIBLE to separate which arrangements are done totally freely and which are done out of a sense of having to or duty / coercision involved.

THEN there is the issue of whether the surrogate has older children. And the implications if there are birth injuries involved with the birth. And the issue of if they DON'T have kids whether they can make an informed choice about what they are doing (remembering giving birth could risk their ability to have any children of their own in the future).

The MERE FACT you think you can compare this with IVF says a fuck tonne about your moral compass and the fact you see a baby as a commodity rather than a person and that the process of giving birth is really fucking risky and can have long term implications.

GO BACK AND TRY HARDER. You REALLY bloody need to get real and understand what you are actually asking another woman to do.

AND THATS BEFORE you consider the implications for the child.

Its monsterious to be making a parallel with IVF.

IVF allows the advancement of medical science to assist in and attempt reproduction for those with infertility (+surrogacy for same sex couples with or without infertility.)

Having an embryo made of your DNA implanted isn't the same as a having a donated egg embryo implanted, both medically and ethically. (Not procedurally.)
They are in the same realm but these two different scenarios are not the same. Surrogacy and IVF can overlap but they are not the same though there are ethical issues with both.

Having medical science assist in eradicating hereditary disease is in the same realm, but not the same as, for example, having geneticists ensure your baby is born with blue eyes. Both come under genetic engineering, but the motivations, ethics and procedures are not the same.

These false equivalences are used to deflect from the issues some do not want us to discuss.

So far

IVF
Organ donation
Maternal death vs car accident stats

...haven't detracted from the core of what surrogacy is but we haven't yet had abortion or body autonomy yet, though I'm sure they are next on the list.

IVF is your baby in your body. It’s not comparable at all.

I don’t have particularly strong views on surrogacy but I can see why people do.

No.

IVF involves medical intervention to allow a woman to carry a baby.

It doesn't involve paying another woman to gestate and birth your child.

In IVF the baby goes home with its birth mother. The woman it lived inside.

In surrogacy the baby is taken at birth from its mother and given to some other people to raise.

These are fundamental differences. Are you absolutely sure you've looked into the ethics of surrogacy? Because these are differences are quite clear to anyone with even a basic knowledge of what IVF and surrogacy involve. It might be worth talking to a clinic so you can understand the difference.

I have no qualms about IVF but I think there are ethical considerations about egg donations too, but not of an order of magnitude of taking an infant from its mother and handing it to its buyer.

Actually, if someone had a car accident and died on their way to pick me up from somewhere, yes, I probably would feel bad about that. Because, you know, empathy.

Also, your stats are wrong.

You use your own body to gestate the baby with IVF, op, not someone else’s.
Extremely strange they you keep comparing the two.