Would you move to Cape Town?

@isthismylifenow

I was there last November as well. Go me 💪

Sorry - this was a reply to @KimberleyClark

Please don’t worry, it seems like a lot of people commenting on this thread either haven’t been/lived there or have bought into an idea that it’s wildly dangerous. As long as you’re sensible, which is my advice for any city, eg don’t flash wads of cash around and don’t waft your phone around while waiting for a taxi etc you’ll be fine. I have spent years in Cape Town off and on and (touch wood) nothing has ever happened to me. I’m not naive but I’m also not paranoid - you’ll have a great time!

@Crikeyalmighty oh my gosh I totally agree. I only chose it because if cost and I can't believe I overlooked before

There have been so many of these threads, and they always go one of two ways. And it always depends on which way the first few comments go.

So I admit to not reading most of the replies, as I knew from the first few posts how it was going to go.

But I am glad to see a Jozi fellow here. 😀

I don't understand why anyone would want to live in a gated armed community? I couldn't live so cooped up, and the stress of worrying all the time would make me ill

There are plenty of comments saying the same thing by people with direct experience. Negative comments aren’t negated because there’s a lot of them, and alternative views aren’t somehow more trustworthy because they’re in the minority. There’s no downplaying or excusing the level of violence that occurs in South Africa. Even if you want to discount personal or second hand experience the statistics speak for themselves. No one is lying here, there’s a very good reason why the feedback is overwhelmingly negative.

There are far more people leaving South Africa than there are returning to it. The number emigrating tripled between 2015 to 2020 compared to what it was from 2010 to 2015:
https://solidariteit.co.za/en/sa-is-losing-skills-1-million-have-emigrated/amp/

@isthismylifenow I agree wholeheartedly. It is very depressing to see how people view SA and yes, the people that move away must convince everyone and themselves that they made the right choice.

That is fine for them. But there are millions of people that happily live here.

I remember you from other SA bashing threads @JayAlfredPrufrock 😀

So glad to hear you are able to visit the Kruger once again.

This is the problem with these threads. Most of the replies are from people who used to live here, and know someone who used to live here. Not many from those who live here now.

Those who have lived here and left, have to believe that they made the right and better choice in leaving. Otherwise you will not settle as easily in your new country. I see this all the time. And you might be quite surprised at the amount of South Africans returning at the moment. As they made the move, to find out there are issues everywhere. Ok, they may not be the same issues, but they would rather live with the ones they know.

Sigh.

This is not the case at all.

I am pretty well travelled, and you will struggle to find a more hospitable, friendly and adventurous nation than South Africans.

No way. Although I'm sure it's great for a "controlled conditions" holiday, living there would be vastly different.

Cape Town is one of the most dangerous cities in the world.

If you want the "Africa experience", you'd be much safer in somewhere like Kenya, Tanzania or Ethiopia.

These aren’t just ‘well my neighbour said’ comments though. The chance of horrific violence is very, very real and has clearly been experience both by people on this thread as well as their close friends and family members.

As I said, all of my South African family (from Cape Town) have left because they felt unsafe. My family have literally lived in Cape Town for a hundred years yet in recently years have seen and experienced terrible things that mean that they now feel safer almost anywhere else.

Yes, it’s a gorgeous place and yes, most of the people are friendly and welcoming. Is that enough to risk the safety and well-being of your children for? Well, that’s up for OP to decide but personally I wouldn’t do it. Those of us telling OP the ‘negative’ side are actually just trying to be realistic, not just negative for the sake of it.

OP, I have not read all the replies as they are all incredibly negative. You are always going to get the 'well my neighbour said' on threads relating to SA.

I live in SA, I am not in CT now though, but hail from that way. My dd lives in CT so I go often.

Please feel free to DM me. I would personally jump at the chance, Cape Town is an amazing place to live.

@KimberleyClark

I’m going in February. Will be about the 25th time I’ve been. My dd and I will be doing the 7 hour drive from Joburg to the most northerly gate of the Kruger. A drive we have done many times.

Fear not.

My SA friend and her entire family moved to Ireland and the UK a number of years ago for most of the reasons mentioned above - their safety and to live a hopefully safe and peaceful life. One thing that she told me about was how a number of her school friends had suffered from strokes and heart attacks which she put down to the stress of just existing there. She was about 40 when she told me this.

For those of you saying horrific violence isn’t random in Cape Town … my friends uncle and aunt were tied up and had boiling water poured on them during a house robbery. They could have just tied them up and then let them go, but violence is just SO common there and racial tensions so high that they felt the need to do what they did. That’s not even the worst experience of my South African friends. They describe what’s going on as a genocide simply due to the vast numbers of people being horrifically murdered and the lack of action being taken.

There’s also a lot of people downplaying the very real and present dangers of the place, as if beautiful scenery cancels everything else out.

There’s quite the difference between disaffected emigrants complaining about chavs and snobbery, and disaffected emigrants complaining about murder, robbery, kidnapping, carjackings, and gang rape that occur to such a degree that those that can afford it live in compounds (if they haven’t indeed left).

and I do have direct experience of Cape Town, for what it’s worth.

@EnidSpyton I have immediate family who live in Cape Town, in an affluent coastal suburb. They're not armed, have no dog (their next door neighbour has a tiny Yorkie!) and don't live in a gated community. They walk to the shop etc.

I'm not downplaying anything, crime is a serious concern in South Africa as well as some of the neighbouring countries and I unfortunately know several people who have been killed, but I'm trying to give a realistic picture.

There are a lot of people commenting here who dont live in South Africa, may not even have visited, and base their opinions on what theyve seen in the news, heard from disaffected Saffers who've emigrated, or from a friend of a neighbour's uncle. I have lived in South Africa. Its a wonderful country. It has big, complex problems and security and poverty are huge issues. However, I lived a very active outdoor lifestyle, made great friends, earned great money and racked up experience in a multinational in emerging markets, and overall had a wonderful experience. The company did secure me very secure housing in a gated security estate and we were also very well supported in terms of advice, counselling about the different cultural expectations, safety and security on the ground etc. I think its true that I almost always felt on alert when out, but I observed all the guidelines and was diligent about my own safety and had a glorious time. I would do it again, but I would do it on exactly those terms again, as its the only way I would feel happy and safe to do it. South Africans are awesome and their problems are huge and to be honest, probably not fixable. But its not entirely true to believe a one sided view of the country, any more than it is for South Africans to believe all Brits are Brexit loving, intolerant chavs or snooty Dukes and Duchesses.

Can you go on holiday for a few weeks in an area similar to where you would be moving to see what you think?

Another option is to make a bucket list of things you want to do there and prioritise holidaying there- if you dont want to prioritise it over, say, the cost of a holiday somewhere else, maybe you dont want to go there as much as you think.

Would you even be thinking about it, seeking it out, if it wasnt offered to you?

I think a lot of SA folks moved to Oz and New Zealand for a safer environment with more like SA weather.

This does not make London comparable to Cape Town in terms of crime statistics. Suggesting this is absurd.

I didn’t say it was. I said it may be rare for a bystander to be caught up in gang violence but there’s plenty of muggings and phone snatching etc.
Also those sort of crimes aren’t common in all large cities - Seoul, Busan and Tokyo for example are safe.

No they're not common. I've lived in London my entire life...I'm 42. I've never once been mugged, nor has any of my family. We've been burgled once and car broken into once. I don't think that is too awful for 42 years. London is really very safe

These kinds of petty crimes are common in any large city.

This does not make London comparable to Cape Town in terms of crime statistics. Suggesting this is absurd.