Would you move to Cape Town?

No way.

Have you seen the crime rates?!

No, this isn't a thing. Violent crime is a massive issue affecting both black and white South Africans. You might say that white South Africans are sometimes targeted as they tend to be more affluent, but then black South Africans are more likely to live in the townships where the gangs operate and are targeted there.
My parents are white farmers and in some ways, I think they're safer than other demographics as they're quite off the beaten track, rather than in more densely populated areas. I am far more concerned about family who live in the cities. This isn't a race thing. It's a crime thing and fundamentally a gang thing that affects everyone in South Africa.
I grew up in Cape Town. I go back for holidays but would never go back at all if I didn't have family there.
Every time I see other South Africans that I grew up with, there's always part of the conversation that goes, "Hey, did you hear about so-and-so," and then that's followed by something truly horrific.
I had a conversation with a British person about this recently and he asked me about numbers. How many people do I know who've been murdered? I had to think about it. The answer was four in four separate incidents.
But I had to think about it because once you add in attempted murder? Then I genuinely don't know.
There was the school friend who had her throat cut but survived, the three different people I know in three separate incidents who were shot in the back and survived after being hijacked and running away from the car, the person who was pushed out of a moving train but survived, and so on and so on.
I have no clue how many people I know who have been held up at knife point, other than I was one of them. It's part of the background.
I can't imagine anyone in the UK knowing three separate incidents where someone was shot in the back in such specific circumstances in the UK.
I love Cape Town. It is the most beautiful place in the world and the people are lovely. I miss it terribly. I wish I could go back, but it has serious problems. I couldn't recommend anyone move there. The beauty and the adventure are not worth the risk.

That’s what I thought. I went to Cape Town in 2006 and it was lovely, I don’t think I’d go back.

*leg it

@Norney you can’t draw any conclusions about white (and other) South Africans leaving post-apartheid South Africa regarding their views on apartheid policy. My husband is South African. He has very mixed heritage, including Cape Coloured (who have Khoisan, Bengali and Malay ancestry). He loves South Africa, but he will not go back now or take our children because it is dangerous. If someone breaks into your home in the U.K. then they take some of your stuff. If they see you they left it. If someone breaks into your home in South Africa then they kill you. With load shedding the electric security gates that keep people safe stop working and the criminal gangs know this. Prominent ANC supporters are being murdered when they try to eradicated corruption. Please look up Babita Deokaran.

Not the case. Black South Africans are more likely to be victims of crime, not whites.

It’s just not a safe place, particularly for Caucasians.

I'll reiterate that, excluding farm murders from the stats, whites are the safest demographic statistically in SA.

@Triffid1 you've said everything I was thinking. I've also got family as well as friends living both in Cape Town and elsewhere and in terms of people I know well, no-one has been a victim of serious violent crime at that level.

I do, unfortunately and sadly, know of several farm murder victims in the wider community where one of my siblings live, but (and you'll get this is you're from SA), the small towns that serve as rural hubs feel safe, it really is the isolation on the farms themselves (plus some underling complexities) that make that such a dangerous situation. The other murder victims I know have been businessmen in neighbouring countries who are unfortunately always armed robbery targets.
As a side note, not all the farm murder victims in the area I'm from have been white - one domestic worker was sadly killed alongside the farmer in one case, and in two others it was married couples who were killed, one a farm manager and one an owner. But I do also believe that people like Malema deliberately stir things for votes/clout.

I'd go so far as to say that home invasion-style murders are still relatively rare in the more affluent Cape suburbs, something like that would be massive news. And I also doubt the overheard a conversation/warning story, that's just a tweak on a classic urban legend.

It’s a beautiful place without a doubt. But there is a reason so many SA folk are leaving. It’s just not a safe place, particularly for Caucasians.

I am sort of hesitant to even right this for fear of tempting fate, but while I believe the stories people are telling, I also know that I just don't have the same number or variety of similar stories, even though I still have loads of family and friends there.

So lots and lots of stories about cars being broken into, houses too sometimes. But I don't know anyone who has been kidnapped and had to jump out of their car, or had to leave a restaurant for fear of being killed by a random group of people sitting next to them in a cafe (okay, actually, I do doubt this story, sorry). There have been families murdered wholesale on farms - truly awful stories - but it's not something I'm seeing as a feature of suburban Cape Town.

These stories often take on a life of their own. That's not to say they don't happen and aren't terrible, but the OP is specifically asking about moving to a wealthy, relatively safe part of Cape Town for a few years, not jacking in her job to become a farmer in the Eastern Cape.

I see that you're not keen on "anecdotal" evidence of crime in S. Africa, OP, so perhaps statistics are more useful:

You can read this, for example: https://businesstech.co.za/news/lifestyle/665791/violent-crime-in-south-africa-is-getting-worse-here-are-all-the-latest-stats/

The per 100,000 murder rate in SA in 2021/22 was 42 (https://issafrica.org/iss-today/soaring-murder-rates-underline-the-lack-of-sound-direction-for-policing#:~:text=Murder%20has%20increased%20by%2062,was%2043%20(Chart%201).

For comparison, the per 100,000 murder rate in the UK over the same period was 1.1.

Don't dismiss the "anecdotal" crime stories - they are based on the reality that SA is an exceptionally violent society.

Hi OP

Never been so can't speak from personal experience but have heard some really upsetting stuff in terms of safety.

Ex-Boyfriend was from SA and he and his immediate family moved to the UK because his Aunt, Uncles, Cousins etc were all slaughtered on their property

In previous job I had Cape Town was somewhere colleagues used to travel to frequently for work - two of them were kidnapped and both had to jump from a moving car on the motorway. Both miraculously survived but have seen their injuries first hand.

Another time as a group they were in a cafe in the daytime and someone kindly discreetly told them to leave through the back right as another group were discussing in Afrikaans how they were going to rob and kill them.

Sorry some grim stories but there is obviously a lot of truth in the safety aspect as seems like there are many similar tales.

Thanks. I don't think they'd do that..(Say its fine when advised otherwise.) Late dhs family were always surprised people leave their cars parked on the road in UK. Dhs bro was a bit worried about leaving his hire car across our drive when he last came over.

I think a little less safe now as the massive impact of the corruption is more pronounced, and covid obviously had a big impact as well plus the COL thing is global. Looking at the overall SA stats the murder rate has been climbing again since around 2010 and that rate has increased a bit more sharply recently.

Things like homeless encampments are apparently more visible in some areas now (I don't live there now but return to visit family and obviously speak to them regularly).

It's kind of tricky to quantify, I don't want to underplay the fact that it's a more dangerous place than the UK/Western Europe but at the same time I don't recognise some of the descriptions here of people afraid to leave the house without tasers. So I suppose it's down to individual risk tolerance.

Cape Town violence has always been high - it's just that the vast bulk of it was traditionally not impacting white people so as a tourist or even a white person who lived there, it felt safer than Joburg. The taxi (sort of private busses, used almost exclusively by black people) violence has, at times, been truly horrific. My parents convinced their cleaner to use alternative, more expensive, transport at one point (they paid, obviously) because they were so worried about her.

@BerriesandLeaves I wouldn't have a problem with your teenagers visiting your late DH's family, but would impress upon them that they need to listen to his family and take their advice on board. So, for example, even now, 20 years after I left SA, I find it almost impossible to leave my handbag at say a table in Costa while I order a second drink - even if I can see it from where I'm standing. And I'd certainly never leave it behind while going to the bathroom. They all think I'm totally paranoid.

So when your in laws tell your daughters that they must put their phones away, or not leave their bags lying around, or ensure everything is out of the car at night, they should listen - NOTHING more irritating to a local than a foreigner who assures them things are "fine" when they don't know what they're talking about.

When I asked my SA friend why she moved here she said "because we have daughters."

She goes to visit her sister but that's the only reason she goes back. Another family we know never goes back ,they moved the whole family here to be safer.

Thanks. Didn't know that. Is it less safe now than it was 10 years ago? Or about the same?

@BerriesandLeaves statistically Cape Town has always had a higher murder rate than Johannesburg due to gang violence on the Cape Flats, it was like that decades ago even.

@ZarZarGabor if you like you can contact me privately. Then I can add you to a local parenting Facebook group. It's largely Cape Town based, which would be helpful for you.

Then you will be able to get a truer reflection of what day to day life is like from the view of people who live here. You could even post this very same post on there, then see what responses you get.

As a percentage sure it's biased because the mass amount of people who are leaving SA are leaving because of hideous reasons.
People who have left SA aren't doing it because they didn't like the climate and yes there's a lot of us. The clue might be in the sheer amount of people who have left, means for the majority of people the situation isn't great.

That's not to say for some it's just dandy.

I love South Africa is it's one of my favourite places and I visit regularly. Ops asked for lived experiences and these are lived experience's. I haven't met many sa that aren't upfront about their experiences good or bad.

Just because I now live in the uk doesn't mean I'm suddenly going to blow smoke up peoples arses and not say from my perspective the pros and cons are. All opinions by the nature of the things are biased based on each persons lives experiences.

All the opinions on here are just that opinions not facts. The sheer number amount of people leaving because of similar experiences is data and fact.

This isn't a scaremongering thread or said to scare op, it's just literally peoples opinion.

For all the South Africans that people know who have moved away, there are hundreds that are living there and happy to stay. Just like the expat community in say Spain, you’d find lots of Brits saying they couldn’t possibly live in the UK again, awful weather, food etc. by simply going on what those have moved away are saying then of course you will have a somewhat skewed view. I am certainly not saying not to think carefully about your decision but I think if you only listen to those that have left then it isn’t balanced.

When I met late South African dh 24 years ago it used to be that Joburg was considered dangerous but Cape Town was considered ok. I went a few times but not been for about 8 years now. Dh been dead 5 years. I didn't realise that (according to the wiki link someone posted) CT is now more dangerous than Joburg? Would people advise my dds (16 and 19) to not visit and stay with dhs family there for a holiday? They're not in a gated community

I've been there on holiday and it is stunningly beautiful, one of the best places I have ever been, but I would not consider living there. There is definitely an edgy atmosphere - I never felt completely at ease. While we were there my idiot dh pulled over to take a photo on the road (for those who have been - those rocks that look like a rhino) and left the door open and the keys in the ignition with me and the dc still in the car 😳!

I know quite a few South Africans who live here - none of them have ever mentioned going back.

Having to live in a gated community due to rampant mass rapes

What are you even talking about? I don't think downplaying the violence in SA is a good idea but this is a completely ridiculous statement.

I have travelled to Cape Town on a work holiday and loved it but would not work there, We were advised that if we were involved in an accident to not stop and go to the police. I have to be vague but I now work in immigration and all of the white South African applicants have a very similar story of mass unchecked violence, gang rapes and ineffective policing. Having to live in a gated community due to rampant mass rapes is not an experience I would like to happen. ps as a European you will be regarded as a rich target, particularly a European employee would be a ransom target. Absolutely no way would i live there. Very very very sad part of a traumatised society.