To never feel completely comfortable renting

If I may ask, What is the personal savings limit to qualify for social housing?

I agree with you absolutely OP. My landlady is a good person, but she's an extrovert. I think she'd be amazed at how anxious the yearly inspections make me - as soon as I recover from one I start worrying about the next!

It should not be like that and it is not like that in many many countries. In Italy, Germany, France and other European countries you can rent with a contract of 5 or 10 years from private landlords, there are no inspections and you treat the house as your own. My parents always rented in Italy, they did all the maintenance to the houses, even changed windows in one flat, they decorated, built fitted wardrobe. Places were rented without kitchen so they even fitted their own. Everything was allowed as far you would get back the property as it was before.
i Moved to the uk and was shocked at the rental market and the lack of rights of people renting. It is completely unfair and all tilted in favour of landlords. I guess it is historical as this is an aristocratic society with still an unelected House of Lords and all the rules favour the wealthy. Leaseholds being a case in point, utter madness and so medieval. However, I am baffled on how people do not complain and push to get their rights. With the cost of living increasing, high interest rates, more and more people will have to rent, I hope they will have the spine to get more rights. I wonder how bad things will need to be to really topple the aristocratic laws, but in a way I hope for the uk it will never get that bad!

Renting is shit especially in London and it is exactly as you say the cheapest option possible wins in all things. Leaks, broken drawers/handles that you can tell have been broken for ages, damp (including in wardrobes with clothes and shoes ruined) rodent infestation are all things we endured in the London rental market. I completely understand all that you have written. You are making all the right changes and hopefully home ownership will be possible in the future. Keep at it.

Take another example: I will never own a Birken bag because they are artifically restricted by the industry. That's fine. I think it's fine that Victoria Beckham owns more than 100 of them while I will never own one. Them's the breaks. She is richer than me. My mental health, social opportunities, career, and children's education are not limited in any way by me not owning a designer handbag. I don't need a designer handbag. What I do need, though, is a house. Need. Not want. I want a system in which everyone is securely fed, housed, and educated before some people start profiting off those who aren't

👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻 Beautifully put! Just beautifully

@LucyGru Take another example: I will never own a Birken bag because they are artifically restricted by the industry. That's fine. I think it's fine that Victoria Beckham owns more than 100 of them while I will never own one. Them's the breaks. She is richer than me. My mental health, social opportunities, career, and children's education are not limited in any way by me not owning a designer handbag. I don't need a designer handbag. What I do need, though, is a house. Need. Not want.
I want a system in which everyone is securely fed, housed, and educated before some people start profiting off those who aren't

@Mew2 We only have a house as bought a 4 bed in cash

Totally unsure what you were trying to achieve by saying this, other than to brag?!

You are totally correct.

@onefinemess Nonsense! Social housing is a tenancy for life

If I were you I'd get on that list asap! Because the waiting time is YEARSSSS for HA properties and even longer for over 55's given how rare they are. The fact that you already have a roof over your head (regardless of the lack of tenancy security) that will put you even further down the list for help.

My 71yr old MIL has been on the waiting list with 4 different councils for 2 and a half years now (she's trying to leave abusive FIL) and still nothing.

There is, it's called social housing! Your tenancy is for life unless you screw up or get rich! (The 'get rich' caveat is a new means-testing thing which only applies to fairly new tenancies. Previous existing tenancies are still for life unless they majorly screw up!)

Biggest problem is that there's nowhere near enough social housing properties!

My point is that the fundamental foundation of the rental market is wrong. Housing is a basic human need, and a system that monetises it so some can benefit (see "nice landlord" upthread who owns 10 btl and out of the goodness of her heart never kicks her tennents out) is wrong. By owning 10 properties you are actively, knowingly and deliberately making less possible for others to own a home. That's a choice that many people think is fair and fine. I don't.

Take another example: I will never own a Birken bag because they are artifically restricted by the industry. That's fine. I think it's fine that Victoria Beckham owns more than 100 of them while I will never own one. Them's the breaks. She is richer than me. My mental health, social opportunities, career, and children's education are not limited in any way by me not owning a designer handbag. I don't need a designer handbag. What I do need, though, is a house. Need. Not want.

I want a system in which everyone is securely fed, housed, and educated before some people start profiting off those who aren't.

I know there are many bad landlords out there and anyone who is unfortunate enough to rent a property from one has my sympathy. However I have been a landlord and despite what people think
you don’t always make shed loads of money from being one. My daughter has had her rental property completely trashed and the house has had to
be completely gutted and renovated. Her mortgage has trebled and she’s having to pay council tax despite the property being inhabitable for over a year. It’s going to take a long time for her to get the money back.

I agree with you, and unless I won a huge sum of money I don't actually want to buy. My last rented flat had a lot of plumbing issues during the time I was there, and I was so thankful that I wasn't responsible for paying them.

All I want is rental accomodation that is secure - I don't want to have to be worrying about moving in my 80s!

I’ll caveat above with: UK system is extremely shit for renters. There are a million better ways. But for nomadic sorts like me and DH, it’s bearable.

You pay someone else’s mortgage. Well yes they won’t let you stay there for free. Why is this a sticking point for renters? It’s the fundamental foundation of the rental market. Why all the hate for landlords? Some are bad but this fixation that it’s ’robbing’ you is stupid.

I have owned, I have rented. I am unusual in that I have returned to renting voluntarily having sold an owned home. My thoughts:

• rental can be more convenient with good landlords as you don’t have the constant worry and pressure of maintaining a house - and sudden panic of ‘where the f do I find 10k’ when the roof insulation is rotted, or you realise some safety feature is not compliant with insurance regs, boiler goes etc.
• rental gives you flexibility to move countries or towns, to leave job and downsize much more easily than buying
• you don’t own a home until mortgage is paid and until then, any financial setback could result in repossession.
• current housing market is going to at some point experience a huge downtown, and a lot of people will lose a lot of money - negative equity is much more ruinous than rent if it also coincides with wider economic chaos.
• enjoy what you have for now: a roof over your head and a standard of living that many people in the world could only dream of.

I get that being a tenant is precarious and feels like the axe could fall at any time.

I am a landlord- of a small two bed property which is fully managed by the estate agents. They regularly inspect the property- but never get back to me with issues- previous tenant decked the garden, added a shed, added cupboards to rooms, painted the walls in dark room and changed the locks (all against the tenancy agreement). When I inspected and found all these issues- I was told by the estate agents it didn't matter. I inspected at the end of tenan y and found 21 issues the estate agents hadn't informed me of. And I am in a dispute with them. Not all landlords are bad- sometimes its the estate agents. We only have a house as bought a 4 bed in cash, and had one previously- we kept for our children to have a deposit later in life and it costs me approx £200 without repairs a month to keep it....

This is why, despite it currently nearly killing us financially, we are clinging on to our tiny flat in a different part of the country from where we presently work. We have a lovely landlord but if we sell our flat we will never, ever get back on the housing ladder (too old/too ill). We don't agree with Airbnb and it's not in any fit state to rent out anyway but I spent my life before this in private rented accommodation only and the uncertainty that you can be kicked out at any point is something that has shaped my life, I have never felt safe enough to put down roots.

In this country too many politicians are raking it in from property to ever bring in the long leases in places like Germany where you have some security of tenure and can build a bit of a life for yourself. In this country those in charge would rather see the streets lined with homeless people (sweeping them up in case of royal weddings....!).

@yippyde it’s a shame that you feel this way although I can understand it, having been a landlord myself. We have rented out our previous house for the last 10 1/2 years, with the same tenant for the whole period. During that time we only raised the rent once and it was well under the market price for a 4 bed detached house. We didn’t go into the landlord business to make a lot of money. We just kind of fell into it really when we wanted to move elsewhere for DC schools and found that we could probably keep the other house and rent it out for a few years whilst purchasing the new house. The tenants came with a reference that wasn’t the best we’ve ever seen but having met them and had several conversations we decided to give them the benefit of the doubt and they moved in in Jan 2013.

The house was in excellent condition and we’ve maintained that during the tenancy and also installed a new boiler a couple of years ago. There haven’t been many other issues but we’ve dealt with them as they arose without any problems. We’ve not constantly been inspecting the house so as to let the tenants feel like it’s their home. They’ve been very happy there and love living there.

Unfortunately we are now in the position where we need to sell up and release the equity in the house but we’ve had a long conversation with the tenants to allow them to know what is happening and we’ve allowed them extra time to find another property as we are well aware how difficult things are now.

What I’m saying is that not all landlords are bad the same as not all tenants are bad. Obviously I know we are not your typical landlords but I hope by being reasonable and flexible people we’ve managed to get tenants who respect us and our house and form some kind of relationship over the years. I know they’re sorry to leave and we’re sorry that we now have to sell. In an ideal world, the tenants would have bought the house from us and continued living there but unfortunately that can’t happen.

But I know exactly what you mean about the security of owning your own home. I have always felt the same and bought my first home in my 20s because I wanted that security and I hate the thought of some people being unable to achieve that. Having said that, I was born and brought up in a rented council flat and so was my husband so we haven’t come from a house owning background but I always aspired to it and worked very hard and moved a long way from family to enable me to buy my first little house. It was a hard slog but well worth it and I have never regretted it. I hope that you will manage to get there too.

YANBU and I would look for a more secure rental. That said, I used to rent from a housing association and didn't have more security than if I'd been renting privately because they were aiming to renovate the block where I lived. They gave me two months' notice to move out when they got around to doing the works, and I'd lived there 12 years. So I would say, even with a housing association, make sure you know what your rights are.

Your LL must be losing money hand-over-fist if the rent hasn't been increased in ~8 years 😮

I rented for nearly 5 years with my children. I hated it.
The whole time, despite my requests they stop, or lengthen the time, I had inspections every 3 months. Not one thing was ever raised.

My bathroom was full of mould from damp and condensation and I was left to live in that for a year, the landlord kindly sent me a fact sheet on what condensation was and how to avoid it (property was damp, cold and needed repairs)

I had a garden FULL of his bushes and greenery and nothing to cut them with. Regularly I’d be on a chair battling it all, when if had been mine I would have chipped it down.

5 years of magnolia, 5 years of no sky because the landlord didn’t like the dishes, but told I could have it if when I left I removed the entire dish and filled the holes.

Some random doing bodge jobs of everything.

Through that I was secure as he never planned to sell, then he had a turn in his fortunes and started saying he was selling and giving me notice, then not selling, then he was selling and that’s when the insecurity really hit me, he could remove us on any whim he wanted.

Fortunately this timed in with a payout and being able to buy. If I hadn’t had that I don’t know where we would be, as no one wanted to rent to a single parent at any point!

Buying was the biggest relief of my life.

I'm not referring to applying for another house, I'm suggesting they have an income rathe than live solely from savings.

It would make no difference. LL can afford to be choosy. There's a housing crisis.