To think hotels are very child unfriendly

I don't know why single parents rise to the bait on this. You know we're talking about the family outings where nobody wants to be there, the kids are yelling, the parents are cross and the sales staff are getting headaches.

Shop online or send one of the adults.

If you're a single parent you can still do online shopping i guess.

Are you doing this sort of thing when the supermarket is really busy, by any chance? The only time I’ve seen people get annoyed by this - and things like letting kids use the self checkout or beep the card on the reader - is when the parent is making a big song and dance of it and oblivious to the queue building to behind them.
Agree with this. Not every minute of every day needs to be turned into an explicit teaching moment or immersive experience.

DC take the small trolley round the supermarket with me and it saves me having a basket. Sometimes it's appropriate for them to take something off a low shelf. Other times the supermarket is clearly busy and me expecting everyone to wait whilst DC slowly decide exactly which apple they'd like for snack would be bloody unreasonable.

Same with self-service checkouts. Them helping me when it's quiet is fine. When there's a queue then only a self-centred parent or one with no situational awareness would think it's ok to play shops with their child.

Maybe one of the people getting annoyed at your child had somewhere they had to be? Maybe they had 5 mins to grab a few bits after work before having to pick up their special needs child from school. Maybe they were quickly grabbing some stuff for the husband in hospital and they were worried and stressed. Why should it only be up to up to them to make allowances for a child?

I see this lack of consideration a lot towards older people as they are often slow on stairs, public transport, take longer in the supermarket at the till etc

Of course they do. It’s a shared space. Parents should be parenting but as long as they are then of course kids can be there with them.

There’s no “expense” to everyone else as long as parenting is happening.

I think it might be Finland that has the child carriages. They used to have something similar in the Interregio trains in Germany as well.

Certainly kids under about 8 should not be in quiet carriages on trains (although to be fair a lot of adults shouldn't, either).

The pp who said why do children even need to be in a supermarket? Good god, how do people think children learn about taking part in our society? By partaking in it, of course. Yes, you don't take a trolley pushing 3yr old round the supermarket at 5-15 rush hour. But at the same time children are learning from the behaviour of others and how those others treat them

I commented on exactly this point on the school uniform thread the other day.

How does anyone learn to wear a uniform for work if they've never done it for school.

How does anyone ever learn to buy something if they don't spend every Saturday morning in a supermarket being a pain in the proverbial and getting in everyone's way.

Answer to both - they learn when they need to,

In my opinion most hotels are child and dog-friendly but that does not mean that you allow your kids to run around and make loads of noise. And definitely not at 3am when you have a room above mine, allowing kids to galump around knocking furniture over.

Ds is at the point now where I am trying to train him in basics of doing some shopping (he is 13 and autistic) we purposely go when it’s quiet with a short list. I make sure I reiterate “this lady is just getting her apples then you can get some” type messages because being aware of others is just as important a part of the learning.

if we teach children that the world has to always stop and wait for them then they grow into adults who are unable to consider others. Because of his needs it’s always going to be harder for DS to understand such things but that doesn’t mean I don’t need to help him learn that other people need to be taken into consideration when in public.

Come on! Toddlers and young kids don't need to learn supermarket skills at the expense of the general public.

Is it Sweden that has train carriages that are essentially soft play? Always thought that’d solve so many problems here.

Someone else upthread mentioned a play area in supermarkets somewhere in another country. Well is that for children to be left by the parents while they shop? Who is monitoring and keeping an eye on all these children if so? What happens when one gets hurt? When one clobbers another one so there's an injury? I could just imagine some parents dumping their kids there all day as well if it's free "childcare". If it's only a play area where parents have to sit and supervise then I'm not sure what good it will do? Parents will need to get to the supermarket earlier then still go shopping with the child. And if they can do that then why not just stop at a park or similar on the way?

I think that was me referring to a supermarket in Greece. The play area was supervised.

I’ve lost count of the number of times my child has needed a few extra moments to do something (E.g. get some bananas off the shelf and put them into her own trolley at Lidl) and adults have sighed about having to wait for her a second, like she’s a second class citizen

In my opinion, this isn’t about her being a second class citizen, it’s about the fact that you are not teaching her to be cognizant of others around her who also need to use the space. By letting your daughter go really slowly when there are clearly people who are anxious to get to where you are, you are not teaching her the rules that society will expect of her as she grows up. With mine, I tend to say something like, “Oh look, this lady also would also like to get some bananas. Let’s let her go ahead of us since we are taking a bit longer to make our choices.”

@Susannainblue Don’t worry, most of us non-parents are sensible and tolerant and understand the need for kids to be in shared spaces.

I did it in my twenties in the summer. Wouldn’t do it now in my fifties for all the money in the world!

I suppose my only question here is: if adults can’t stand upright then how could they hold their kids and walk through? Presumably you can’t have a pram in there and kids may find being carried at a 90 degree angle alarming and start crying, which is all anyone needs in a confined space!

It doesn’t really sound like a spot that’s suitable for young kids.

I'm a single mum, would you prefer I left my 4 year old home alone or in the car?

Obviously there is a time and place.

The pp who said why do children even need to be in a supermarket? Good god, how do people think children learn about taking part in our society? By partaking in it, of course. Yes, you don't take a trolley pushing 3yr old round the supermarket at 5-15 rush hour. But at the same time children are learning from the behaviour of others and how those others treat them.
Honestly, I do wonder how many people who post on Mumsnet are actually parents. And how many divisive incels post here masquerading as women to cause trouble.

The pictures made me think I definitely wouldn’t go in. The photo of him having coffee on balcony overlooking pyramid was much more my speed!

I do think blanket rules like no running indoors are easier all round, the children know where they stand.

Those pyramid tunnels are hideous enough without waiting for a slow child. Some people are so damn selfish.

A colleague was telling me about visiting pyramid In Egypt and showing me photos. Inside it was red hot and a narrow wooden ramp. Adults had to bend double. He said someone was letting a small child walk really slowly so everyone was having to wait. He’s young and childfree and was like who does that.

Eh?? Er, because some people don’t have their children in childcare and need to go shopping just like everyone else…?

I think the OP is in the wrong here, but that doesn’t mean children should never be in public spaces. At some point they need to learn how to function as adults in society, and learning the unspoken rules of supermarket etiquette (for example, not taking overly long in front of a section where there are clearly other people waiting to get into the same area, not blocking the whole aisle with your trolley, trying to get through the till in a timely fashion when the shop is busy and everyone is waiting, etc) is part of normal life socialization.

I remember being somewhere at a tourist attraction with narrow stairs. There was a massive bottle neck because someone was letting their tiny 12-18 month old practise walking up the steps, with lots of parental encouragement and applause. It was in searing heat and not the time or the place.

Some parents truly are blind to everything apart from their own child.

It depends where you're walking them. If it's a long narrow staircase where no one can get past and there's a massive queue forming behind you and it'll take 10 minutes to get up them, then yes people are going to get annoyed. If it's a packed rush hour tube station and you're in the middle and the train is arriving and no one can get past you then yes people are going to get annoyed. If its a short flight like 5 steps into a restaurant then no they should just be patient.
Consideration for others works both ways.
Consideration for the child and mother trying to teach, consideration for the working mother who's just dropped her child off and has a narrow margin to get to work on time so can't wait an extra 10 mins to get on the tube.

(Consideration works the other way too of course. I frequently let parents with young kids go ahead in a check out line or other queue because I find it easier to wait.)

Exactly.

Were they awakened by phantom squeals, or just in the mood to complain so picked a random morning to phone reception?

Or were your kids so noisy that they were disturbed for an extended period of time? Most people don't phone down after just one or two noisy outbursts.