Page 2 | To ask for some form of compensation

FleurDeLips · 2023-07-26T10:08:54+00:00

I live in a housing association property which is actually quite expensive to rent a month and pay service charges (meant to be affordable housing, but a mortgage would still cost me less). I’m a good tenant look after the property, always pay rent, claim no benefits and yes I appreciate I am luckier than some. A month ago something went wrong in the HA managed heating system and I was left without any running water (hot or cold) apart from the cold mains supply in the kitchen. We could not flush the toilet without using a bucket filled from the kitchen tap and haven’t had access to any hot water apart from if I boil the kettle up. We did try to fill the bath with kettle water but it took so long it wasn’t worth it for 2 inches of water. We did also kind of slosh ourselves in the bath with kettle/cold water using jugs and bowls. Washing their hair in freezing cold water in the kitchen sink gave my kids headaches and made them cry. They told me I could not get my own plumber in as this would invalidate all the electrical and heating systems in the house and then they would never do any maintenance to the system again and no one had authority to touch it. I have had to take 9 days off work to let in various workmen over the past month. I have also had to drive around to other peoples houses or the local gym nearly every few days to access warm water/showers for myself and my DC. I don’t live near my family or friends or the gym so can’t walk to these places. The main part of the repair has now taken place so I have access to hot water again. I still have to take more time off for the last part of the repair. I’ve raised a complaint about the way this was handled with misinformation and delays. I was told by one workman that some people are without water for 2 years, as if that makes it any better or acceptable? Is it worth pursuing anything from this? It’s fixed now but I can see that I may be entitled to under the right to repair scheme. They did in fact attend my property promptly when I reported it but they wouldn’t authorise the repair as it was a big job and instead kept trying to send workmen to investigate and replace parts.

Original poster

FleurDeLips · 27/07/2023 08:50

AliceMay55 · 27/07/2023 08:41

Why could you use a bucket and mug in the bath?

A large bowl of water heated on the cooker + more in the microwave + more in the kettle. This with 50% cold water in the bucket is enough for a comfortable lukewarm shower for an adult. Half of India showers with this method ! There was absolutely no need to do cold water showers!

Why did you have to take time off? Did the HA not have a key?

I am not comfortable giving strangers a key to my house. Never met these people. No HA’s don’t let themselves in. It’s the same as a private LL. they don’t wander round your house whilst you are out! It’s my house, I live in it? I’m just so confused by this concept. How would I have talked to any of the plumbers to know what was going on?

Anyway, no I didn’t leave my house unlocked all day or give keys to strangers let’s move on.

I don’t live in India I live in the U.K. in a house with a fully fitted hot water system that I pay rent to use.

OP posts:

Original poster

FleurDeLips · 27/07/2023 08:46

LadyLapsang · 27/07/2023 08:36

Earlier this year I was without a bath / shower for weeks, but because DH was doing DIY around full time work and caring. It was really unpleasant. However, we could have employed someone to get it done sooner.

I don’t think you are unreasonable wanting compensation but I think the rhetoric around washing your children’s hair in freezing water is very odd. Children don’t need their hair washed very frequently and you were taking them for showers, so why would you be washing their hair in cold water?

What was your communication with the HA at the time? Did you tell them you needed it dealt with straight away for health and safety reasons, e.g. not safe to boil a kettle to provide hot water for young children. Impact on your working life?

Finally, one thing we can all consider is that lots of local authorities providing elderly care deem it acceptable to refuse to offer regular baths and instead carers give people, who could be helped into a shower or bath were they to have more time with a carer, a wash with a flannel. I don’t think that is an acceptable level of care but it may indicate the difference between how most adults live their lives and what a local authority or HA may deem acceptable.

Basically it took so long to boil kettles and pans whenever they needed to wash their hair and so messy and fiddly rinsing so many times to get the soap out they sometimes just wanted it over and done with so we did a cold tap in the kitchen sink job. Kids are not very tall so it was uncomfortable getting them to the height they needed to be. Overall, it was just shit for them. This is not really what I am asking for compensation for, I just mentioned it was pretty shit. I wish I hadn’t.

I communicated with all of them but I am able to do so, I also talked to every engineer so I could learn what was happening. Eventually I did get the result I wanted but a more vulnerable person as you say is already disadvantaged. It’s not ok to just wash people with flannels really - my mum is in older people housing and they put in a shower for her as she can’t use a bath. This should just be basic care!

OP posts:

AliceMay55 · 27/07/2023 08:42

Why could you *NOT use a bucket 👆🏻

AliceMay55 · 27/07/2023 08:41

Why could you use a bucket and mug in the bath?

A large bowl of water heated on the cooker + more in the microwave + more in the kettle. This with 50% cold water in the bucket is enough for a comfortable lukewarm shower for an adult. Half of India showers with this method ! There was absolutely no need to do cold water showers!

Why did you have to take time off? Did the HA not have a key?

Original poster

FleurDeLips · 27/07/2023 08:40

BMW6 · 27/07/2023 08:05

Well as they've offered £150 you should accept that!
Washing hair over a sink using bowl and jug is not the dreadful ordeal you are trying to portray IMO.

Perhaps you have some reading issues where I said I might as well take this as it covers my extra fuel?

Also honestly I am just done with people being so purposefully irritating, I clearly explained washing hair in a bowl was just one annoying part of this shit show which included me having to take 9 days off work.

No I wasn’t ‘waiting for parts’ on order either, that would be obviously understandable, they kept sending out engineers who all immediately said ‘you need a new tank it’s fucked’ but the upper management of the contractor company wouldn’t approve a new tank so these blokes ended up fiddling with the tank, draining it, turning it on and off again to no avail. I only got a new tank fitted once I made a complaint and had 2 further site surveys done to get approval (more days off waiting indoors) and this took another 2 days to do the work. They changed the combi valve twice but this didn’t bring back the hot water. They are also a huge heating company who have their own stores department not a self employed plumber who has to order something from a merchants.

No I am not comfortable giving strangers a key to my house wtf? This is not some plumber I know and have a rapport with it’s random people from a big company I’ve never met, all of whom left my front door wide open while they were upstairs.

I’m sorry to hear that mortgage payers had to wait for parts, I also have had to wait for parts before but I was not waiting for a part on order that they couldn’t source. I couldn’t get approval for the works needed from the first day it went wrong. I have always read on here now people look down on HA tenants as if we should be grateful to even be alive and someone even told me to go buy a house if I can afford a plumber and give my house to someone else! I don’t know why I didn’t think of that before, my £150 can be my deposit.

There are people all up and down this country living in awful rented conditions with LL not paying out to do repairs for basic services, and if this is how they treated me I dread to think how they might treat an elderly person who might not have the savvy to know they are being fobbed off. Not everyone can buy a house, many people rent and they are not lesser beings than someone who has a mortgage and more superior. HA’s are obliged to provide basic services like any other landlord and I pay rent and service charge for that privilege. I’m not prepared to just be grateful it didn’t take them longer to repair.

OP posts:

LadyLapsang · 27/07/2023 08:36

Earlier this year I was without a bath / shower for weeks, but because DH was doing DIY around full time work and caring. It was really unpleasant. However, we could have employed someone to get it done sooner.

I don’t think you are unreasonable wanting compensation but I think the rhetoric around washing your children’s hair in freezing water is very odd. Children don’t need their hair washed very frequently and you were taking them for showers, so why would you be washing their hair in cold water?

What was your communication with the HA at the time? Did you tell them you needed it dealt with straight away for health and safety reasons, e.g. not safe to boil a kettle to provide hot water for young children. Impact on your working life?

Finally, one thing we can all consider is that lots of local authorities providing elderly care deem it acceptable to refuse to offer regular baths and instead carers give people, who could be helped into a shower or bath were they to have more time with a carer, a wash with a flannel. I don’t think that is an acceptable level of care but it may indicate the difference between how most adults live their lives and what a local authority or HA may deem acceptable.

TheWayoftheLeaf · 27/07/2023 08:34

MatildaTheCat · 26/07/2023 11:35

To be honest this could just as easily have happened if you owned the property. You’ll generally start at a position of doing the least expensive repair and work upwards. Ordering parts and scheduling appointments all takes time. Very frustrating but life.

We were without heating or hot water for two weeks in February. Own house.

What sort of compensation are you looking for.

We've been a month without hot water here in our owned house because something owned by the freeholder needs fixing first.

OP I totally get your frustration. It sucks not being able to have a hot shower!

Persephonegoddess · 27/07/2023 08:32

Yes I think you should claim, you pay for a service, you were not allowed to pay for a repair so you should be compensated for their actions meaning you were without that service for an extended length of time. If you had got someone in it may have been fixed straight away but cost more... not your issue. As they have chosen to go the cheap route they need to compensate you for the time it took. You did not have the full services you pay for. And running water in more than just kitchen is definitely rubbish. Lack of hot water is miserable and not reasonable for longer than a week.

EsmeSusanOgg · 27/07/2023 08:28

This is a general guide, but there is some useful advice here on Which? that could help with claiming.

www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-claim-against-your-landlord-for-disrepair-aUqoB6h4YabA

EsmeSusanOgg · 27/07/2023 08:24

£150 does not cut it. If this was a gas shut off you'd be entitled to £30 for every 24 hours you did not have the gas. Though this looks like a centralised electric system instead?

OP, you need to add up your costs - including the days leave you had to use for this (as now you cannot get that back - or if you can it will be unpaid). You need to present the HA with all of your costs caused by the issue and counter their pathetic offer. Realistically, they should have offered you facilities or coordinated repairs/ had someone from the HA come in with notice rather than forcing you to take time off work.

Simonjt · 27/07/2023 08:14

My husband used to rent a flat out, when his tenants were left without hot water and flushing toilet he had to provide them with alternative housing until the issue was solved.

When our own water system had issues that meant we couldn’t flush our toilets our home insurance arranged alternative housing until the issue was solved.

The £150 may cover petrol, but was your time of work paid or unpaid?

BMW6 · 27/07/2023 08:05

Well as they've offered £150 you should accept that!
Washing hair over a sink using bowl and jug is not the dreadful ordeal you are trying to portray IMO.

S72 · 26/07/2023 22:49

Check the landlord's repair policy for timescales and see if it has a compensation policy. Often there will be defined compensation for loss of amenity and repair delays.

Go through the formal complaint process, clearly outlining the impact on you and any financial loss. See what it says in response. If you remain dissatisfied, escalate it to the housing ombudsman for a review.

Original poster

FleurDeLips · 26/07/2023 22:43

FinallyHere · 26/07/2023 21:46

If this was my own house I could have paid someone to come

I'm not sure I really understand the problem. If you are living in so called affordable housing and not satisfied with the services divided, why not move out to your own place.

This would free up the accommodation for someone's use and allow you to make your own arrangements for repair and maintenance.

I’m a tenant I pay rent like anyone else who rents. I don’t have free housing

OP posts:

Original poster

FleurDeLips · 26/07/2023 22:43

HundredMilesAnHour · 26/07/2023 19:52

OP has already stated that she had running water in the kitchen.

Apparently she didn't have a bucket or know anyone who could lend her a bucket. Same as she didn't have any pans apparently.

Definitely padding for a compo claim.

Show quote history

I had buckets and pans and jugs I already mentioned them, but this is not Victorian Britain and I had an installed otherwise functional hot water system that needed a new tank but no one would commit to replacing it and they didn’t even replace many parts, they mostly just came out to look at it. They replaced one of the same parts twice

I drove a lot of extra miles in my car costing fuel and running up my mileage. I also had to take all these days off work, yes. Not every job you can wfh, and not every job will pay you to sit at home 8-5 waiting for a plumber, what world are people living in when this is acceptable way to treat a paying customer, I am a tenant not a freebie. They have offered me £150 and I might just take that, it will cover my fuel costs for sure.

OP posts:

Pancake678 · 26/07/2023 22:00

I think you misjudge how easy it is to get decent trades people, parts and labour if you own your own house. We own. We have been without a flushing toilet for 2 weeks due to a part that wasn't in stock anywhere. Yes we used a bucket. When our Emerson tank leaked through the ceiling we waited another 2 weeks plus had to pay £4k for a new boiler system in the end. That didn't include the ceiling repairs. Life isn't always so easy owning either. I feel
Private rent and social housing tenants don't really understand this.

Nat6999 · 26/07/2023 21:51

I'm council & was left with no heating or hot water for 5 days during winter 2010, there was only a gas fire in the living room, ds & I ended up sleeping on the sofas down there for the full 5 nights, the gas meter was going round like it was going to take off.

FinallyHere · 26/07/2023 21:46

If this was my own house I could have paid someone to come

I'm not sure I really understand the problem. If you are living in so called affordable housing and not satisfied with the services divided, why not move out to your own place.

This would free up the accommodation for someone's use and allow you to make your own arrangements for repair and maintenance.

HundredMilesAnHour · 26/07/2023 19:52

GrumpyPanda · 26/07/2023 19:31

Oh come off it you're being ridiculous. No running water AT ALL for an entire month is not a "minor issue." I'm not in the UK so can't speak on the legal situation but where I am in the EU pretty sure the landlord would have to accommodate tenants elsewhere - hotel for the entire month if necessary - as the property would be deemed uninhabitable until water is fixed.

Show quote history

OP has already stated that she had running water in the kitchen.

Apparently she didn't have a bucket or know anyone who could lend her a bucket. Same as she didn't have any pans apparently.

Definitely padding for a compo claim.

RagingWoke · 26/07/2023 19:50

Did you ask the HA for assistance while you had no water? Temporary large water heater for example?
It's pretty standard to not get a replacement immediately with a HA, as frustrating as it is they have to jump through hoops to get bigger jobs/replacements signed off. But I do think more could be proactive in offering temporary solutions in situations like this rather than tenants having to ask.

How much compensation do you want? If you've kept records and receipts for extra fuel then that seems reasonable (but unlikely to be agreed to be honest), it's harder to put a figure on using your annual leave as you are not financially worse off.

JonahAndTheSnail · 26/07/2023 19:49

I don't know what the usual protocol is in this situation, but I don't see the harm in asking/making a complaint. For the cost of few minutes it takes to make the complaint, I don't see how you lose, even if they say 'no we're not going to compensate you for x reason'.

nothingcomestonothing · 26/07/2023 19:45

Being over a barrel stuck with the awful trades contracted by the council was a very annoying part of the deal, when I was a council tenant. They'd come whenever and you'd have no say in it and often very little notice, usually do a shit job, and have to come back multiple times. They had no incentive not to annoy me or to fix the issue quickly, as they'd get paid anyway.I once asked a big wig from the council who my complaint had been escalated to, if he'd have been happy with the service I'd had, if it was his house - his response was that he wouldn't let the council's contractors work on his house!

I believe there are specifications re timescales you can be left without hot water or a working toilet, it should be on your HAs website or in your tenancy info. Check it, and put in writing where they've breached it and what the outcome of that should be (if it's specified in your tenancy agreement) or what you want them to do now (if it's not).

cinnamonfrenchtoast · 26/07/2023 19:35

Nothing was wrong in the street with mains supply it was the water cylinder and a pipe in my house. They knew this from the first day but refused to change the tank for a new one so they tried to repair bits of it for a month or just came and stood and looked at it on 9 occasions. They have now replaced it.

It's pretty normal to try and repair things before paying for the full cost of a replacement.

Did you really have to take time off work every single time? I'd have just left a key with them and had them get on with it.

HaudYerWheeshtYaWeeBellend · 26/07/2023 19:31

so many typos waist if etc..

Mind I don’t think you are UR, however don’t believe you have reasonable expectations or have the awareness that you could have made this process easier on yourselves, rather than harder.

GrumpyPanda · 26/07/2023 19:31

KarmaStar · 26/07/2023 11:55

You can try but doubt you would get anywhere.
Why wash kids hair in cold water when showering elsewhere? Try dry shampoo too if it happens again.
Sounds like you are passing out a legitimate,but fairly minor issue in order to claim cash.

Oh come off it you're being ridiculous. No running water AT ALL for an entire month is not a "minor issue." I'm not in the UK so can't speak on the legal situation but where I am in the EU pretty sure the landlord would have to accommodate tenants elsewhere - hotel for the entire month if necessary - as the property would be deemed uninhabitable until water is fixed.