Will DH ever change? How can I get through to him?

I'm sorry OP. This isn't really about housekeeping or hoovering. I mean it is on one level - anyone should be upset at the level of filth and slovenliness exhibited by your husband. But there are ways to minimise that, I suppose. I have a friend who is the last word in not seeing dirt/not caring etc. It is a bit shocking tbh. But she has a daily housekeeper and is a fantastic person in other ways and contributes to the home (and not just money).

The more important thing is that he is happily dismissing the distress of his pregnant wife and telling you that he would rather separate (blaming you of course) than actually pick up a towel from the floor.

Did he show any concern for the physical labour you have to do while pregnant? That isn't normal. I remember when I was heavily pregnant with my first baby and we were moving apartments. A guy at work said to dh "make sure Pallisers doesn't lift anything" He didn't even know me but he was concerned for my health.

Was there any concern at all for how you felt? There is something missing in him if he is so removed from the emotions of the person he is supposed to love most in the world.

I’m just so sorry. He sounds like he is really willing to lose you and the children to prove a point. The point being that he and his work are important and you all are just bit players.

DH is from a separated family and he seemed unmoved by the suggestion of it. I suspect he thinks I’m just pregnant and hysterical.

That's what I suspected too. And I suppose the fact that you're about to give birth to his second child makes him feel even more secure, because what woman wants to separate at such a vulnerable time?

The fact that he accused you of nagging shows his attitude to women too. It's such a throwback to a time when women really had no choice but to stay in an unhappy marriage, so their voicing their displeasure was just "nagging" as opposed to them making a last ditch attempt to fix the marriage before filing for divorce. It must be really upsetting for you to hear him come right out and say these things. You said he at first refused to stop socialising days before your first birth; I would guess there are far more ways that he has shown his priority is for himself and not you throughout your marriage

I think I'd counter that conversation with a "I'm too tired and too pregnant to deal with your lack of respect right now, but please know that once this baby is here and I'm back to full strength, things will be changing around here. And I think it's fair to tell you that likely means a separation. The ball is on you to change, and not on me to lower my expectations".

OP, I could have written your post. My exDH was exactly the same. I read somewhere "the things that niggle at the start are the reasons you leave later".

I don't think he will change. And you can outsource all your like, but the disrespect and lack of empathy will only manifest in other ways.

Good luck x

He said he couldn’t change my mind if separation was my preference and that marriages don’t end over things like hoovering.

Email him the link to the ‘She divorced me for dishes by the sink’. In the email, say in writing it is not ‘housework’ you’re upset by, it’s his lack of consideration and selfishness. Tell it like it is.

For now, get the housekeeper. Have your baby, recover, regroup. Bide your time.

OP, I'm so sad for you. Like I said in a previous post up thread, annual leave is probably around 10% of the year. So I would ask him why he thinks it is acceptable for him to do sweet fuck all around the house at least 90% of the year, yet you are expected to do it? Just because he earns good money, doesn't mean he is allowed to be a slovenly pig. You also work FT!

And no, people don't divorce specifically over hoovering. People divorce because their partner disrespects them and are awful to live with (and a whole host of other reasons).

The ONLY solution to your problem is one of the following: (a) he has a personality transplant and completely overhauls his attitude (you have given him ample opportunity for this to happen and he couldn't be bothered) or (b) you hire a live-in housekeeper who picks up after him (realistically the housekeeper would have to be there during all waking hours in order to keep on top of his mess and this will cost a fortune so probably isn't feasible) or (c) divorce him and let him go back to his mother so she can happily pick up after him.

But given the way he has treated you up until now, I wouldn't even go with option (b). He needs a complete wake up call.

What exactly does he add to you life? Think about the answer to that question. It sounds like it's just money. And in a divorce he'd have to support you financially. You may have to cut back on luxuries etc but that's a small price to pay for not having to deal with that enormous level of disrespect every day.

So he works hard is tiered ergo you don't send him back to mummy

I imagine you're feeling done in this morning OP.

It sounds as though your DH was inadequately parented. He clearly didn't go through the epiphany that most people experience as a teenager (or some in their first houseshare) where they discover that everyone is required to pick up after themselves and help towards household chores. Decent parents train their teenagers to gradually take on more chores; rubbish parents don't and their children are usually the ones who get a shock in their first houseshare that there's no magic fairy following them around cleaning up! If your DH's friends told you that he was awful to live with then it sounds as though he didn't care about causing others hassle by not doing his share, which suggests a bigger failing in his upbringing, he's not been taught to care for others.

I don't know if that can be changed. He's missed the crucial teen time in life where most people learn to care for others and to not be fundamentally selfish. Even if the heavens opened and he had a sudden epiphany, it's probably too steep a learning curve for him to become a useful partner and parent.

I agree it sounds like a daily housekeeper would be the level of outsourcing OP needs if you go down that road. I once lived with 3 guys in my flatshare days and two of them were so inconsiderate and messy which meant the bathroom and kitchen ended up getting dirty very quickly literally minutes after the weekly cleaner left.

OP, sorry to hear your update. It seems your husband has put into words the lack of consideration and care he has for you, which he’s already been showing through the way he treats your shared living space. But to hear it out loud must be quite a shock. it’s very sad he would prefer separation than just cleaning up after himself like an adult. He could well be bluffing and May change his mind if you put your plan to leave into action but it’s still upsetting that his first response wasn’t to reassure you he would change.

Cleaners don’t cut it though is the problem - with two young kids, cooking and laundry, the house is close to back to square one within half a day. And you need to remove clutter/mess for cleaners to clean properly.

If outsourcing is REALLY the only option, then a daily housekeeper is probably the best bet.

You poor thing. I’m so disappointed in him for you, especially by his latest response. You are not, by any stretch of the imagination, being unreasonable. Write him a chores list?? Are you his manager?? Beyond insulting. If this were me I would be insisting on marriage counselling immediately or making plans to go stay with family indefinitely. The idea that he could simply let you go rather than work with you on this is astounding.

He was like this when you met him. He’s been showing you how he is ever since, he’s never going to change.

The question is whether you’re prepared to accept this. If not, your options are to get a cleaner to come around twice a week or leave him.

Wow
What a stunning lack of empathy and support for a tired and pregnant wife. That's what ends marriages.
OP you deserve a lot more than this.

I think the main issue is that your husband is utterly self absorbed and unable or unwilling to see things from your perspective. You must me exhausted and his attitude does show a real lack of care and empathy. I'm so sorry that you are having such a difficult time and hope you can reach a decision right for you and your DC. Your husband doesn't see the problem and I really don't think given his track record it's going to change.

Pleading with him to do something as basic as hanging up his towel? How on earth would this resolve the fundamental issue in this relationship - namely the total lack of respect and the fact that he simply does not care about his wife's exhaustion and distress?

@NewMomma21 - this is never going to get better. What you have been dealing with is what you'll be faced with for the rest of your life if you stay and try and make this work.

I think you should plan your exit. Imagine never having to pick up his shit. Ever again! Head over to the Divorce board and you'll get the advice you need to get out of this mess 💐

This occurred to me as well....... This psychologist specialises in narcissism - does anything he says resonate with you, @NewMomma21 ?

I say this as someone with a similar partner (though I don’t currently work) he is unlikely to change much. I’ve made some minimal progress in the 10 years we have been together. I would pick one small thing and try and get him doing that. Maybe just hanging up towel after shower? Don’t nag/ask about anything else just focus on the one task.

People only change if they want to. He doesn't want to. You have been extremely clear and he has answered . Now time to decide what you want.

Is he a narcissist? Because the way he’s talking to you, minimizing everything you say, and gaslighting you sure make him look like one.

I‘m so sorry to read your update OP. He just doesn’t give a flying shite about anything but himself, does he.

His excuse for laying about is he’s tired from working - you work far harder yet it’s fine for you to be a skivvy? Him earning more than you doesn’t trump the fact you do twice the work.

I know this must be devastating for you but it sounds like he is an inherently selfish and arrogant man. As awful as this is to accept, it will give you a lot of power when you feel up to rebuilding a life without him draining the life out of you with his contempt.

He's really successful at controlling the conversation isn't he. He minimises anything you say and turns the tables by saying you are ' ridiculous' which implies you are the cause of the problem. It is not going to be possible to have an equal relationship if you cannot have equality in your conversations, and this degree of conversational control suggests he feels comfortable controlling you with regard to this issues.

He probably has deeply misogynistic views that cleaning and domestic work are services women are meant to provide to men, and he would quite like to protect his interests of not contributing to that.

It is really unfortunate that many men don't show their true colours until you are pregnant/married and effectively "trapped".

I'm sorry you find yourself here @NewMomma21 . This website explains how he is using the conversation to get his needs met but he's not interested in your getting yours met.

www.talkingwise.com/conversational-control-explained

I'm not even that tidy but I couldn't/wouldn't tolerate this. if he can't/won't change, then I would need him to pay someone to clean up after him. or I would have to leave him, I would find it too disrespectful/dismissive/depressing. I would be miserable