WTF won't Labour, Lib Dems (& potentially the Greens) endorse tactical voting?

am really scared that Labour will win.

Whereas I’m really scared they won’t.

Yes I think that those who scoff and mock have genuinely no idea of the reality of this appalling mess.

Great post. Ex LP member here and I am so upset at what the party has become and the horrible misogyny that it appears to support. I would struggle to vote Conservative and am really scared that Labour will win. It's a horrible place to be.

I just want our children to taught reality. I don’t think that’s too much to ask.

I just assume that people who aren’t worried about the gender ideology, just haven’t researched it yet. Once you see where it’s going, it’s terrifying.

Has anyone mentioned about Tories knowing what a woman is yet? 😂

This is usually the line from the Labour lot.

Women who are concerned are more likely to discuss eroding women and girls’ sex based rights

The bot argument is also well worn by same few. I don’t see how it’s gone ‘tits up’ anyway as there’s a multiple posters who agree with the first to bring it up,

I agree with @RobinStrike especially the last pararaph!

I don't think there is any evidence of bots on this thread. I don't think Labour and LibDems can officially endorse tactical voting as it's an insult to their local parties if you say you won't stand a candidate. They will be working towards having their candidate elected for years and to say the leadership will support another party's candidate instead would be unworkable. It's also an insult to your voters to not put up a candidate. Labour and other parties with expel anyone who campaigns for a candidate in another party. It will be interesting if Corbyn stands as an independent as any Labour MPs campaigning for him will be expelled.

Not campaigning hard or spending a lot in a constituency is the best they can do and rely on individuals to vote tactically without any official endorsement.

Has anyone mentioned about Tories knowing what a woman is yet? 😂 Even though they are also aware of very low conviction rates for against violence against women. I love it when a bot tries to derail a political thread with this and it goes tits up.

I think red wall will go back to Labour, SW and rural Lib Dem, and the far right nutters will go reform. All in all, I still don't think that will give Tories a chance as they really are disliked by everyone apart from the very wealthy now.

Not sure about Scotland and how that will go now.

Hung parliament most likely. To be honest, given what has happened in this last majority government and the shit that has been voted through, I'm not that keen on any party having a majority now anyway.

I also wish I could trust Labour.

You reduce this to a man using a loo. But think about your young daughters using loos and changing rooms in schools with boys using the opportunity to bully and voyeur. Think about them being injured in sport because they are forced to play against male bodies in opposing teams, or losing opportunities to further their achievements in sport.
The vulnerable women who need a woman for intimate care and are told that their need comes second to the man's need for his self ID to be respected. Women who need counselling for PTSD as a result of DV told they have to share their sessions with men who identify as women.
None of this is minor. It reduces women and girls to people who exist to be a support service to men's ideologies and whims.
Do you want schools to support your daughter in wearing binders which are medically dangerous and not tell you? Or socially transition your child and put them on the path to irreversible medical damage?
I worry about all the things you do, but it doesn't make me think any of this is trivial. I just don't have a solution to how to protect women when it comes to an election, but I don't trust Labour, and I wish I could.

In FPTP the big parties steal the popular policies of the smaller ones to prevent them getting bigger. Smaller parties are kept out of parliament, but still have an indirect effect on policy. UKIP basically forcing the Tories into offering a referendum on EU membership is a good example of this. IIRC UKIP only ever had one Westminster MP.

In PR the smaller parties are much more likely to gain seats in the HOC. I think if we had PR UKIP would have got a significant proportion of the seats in one election as they got a significant fraction of the vote (but only 1 MP) so they would have had a lot higher visibility in the UK in general, which may have worked in their favour, and may not have (because although they had some good politicians, they also had a fair few that were completely batshit).

My view is that PR gives higher visibility to smaller parties. So yes people might be pleased with the higher visibility of say the Greens, the flip side to that is that in order to get that there is a likelyhood the visibility of other extremist parties will also increase. So to me its a matter of being careful what people wish for.

Well we’ll see. If they do hopefully the backlash will surprise them.

They might want to shore up their own political success but best to ask the electorate if they support it first.

I'm not really in a position to confirm that or not, because it's a matter of opinion and priority. It's not like with, say, the ability of governments to pass non-manifesto legislation which is just plain fact.

Me being concerned about the risk of multiple changes to the electoral system in a short period doesn't mean it would be a bad decision for, say, the Lib Dems. Or a good one either.

It would certainly increase electoral fraud. It’s a terrible idea.

I love the patronising style. It’s a real treat.

And you’ve confirmed it’s a bad decision anyway 🤷‍♂️

Fine by me.

@Enfys1982 ig is possible to care about the issues you have highlighted but also women’s rights, it isn’t a race to the bottom and yet again it is women being told to put up and shut up for the greater good.

Also I envy the posters on here who seem to think that Labour will come in and wave a magic wand for these things - they won’t. People will no doubt hark back to the Blair years but he inherited a robust economy, what we have now is anything but that. I’ll be spoiling my ballot as I cannot bear not to vote and can vote for any of the current parties.

I mentioned Mordaunt because you didn't say which of the things I've suggested might happen you were referring to.

On PR, I think it's less likely to last if it's implemented because of the junior party in a coalition, so it wouldn't be my preferred mechanism no. I don't think a sort of back and forth of changing electoral systems would be positive, and it might be a risk in that scenario.

However I'm not naive enough to think that means we don't have a political system that would allow for it. Because we absolutely do, and any A level politics student could tell you that. There are people who don't even believe in parliamentary democracy who still have that basic level of understanding.

Tg for that. It’s weird to me women don’t care. To the point they post as pp did too.

Well said.

It was a direct question, not sure where all the Mordaunt stuff is coming in. A distraction for some reason.

Would you prefer people got to vote for PR, regardless of what’s possible, wouldn’t you want others to have a say?

By the gender stuff do you mean women’s absolutely basic human rights?

The right to go to women’s survivors of sexual assault groups and not have a male there? The right to go to women’s only accommodation such as homelessness or addiction centres and not have to share bedrooms or showers with males? The right not to have to undress in front of males? The right not to have males undress in front of you? The right to be taken seriously if you state you object to being made to do this? the right to compete fairly in sport, to have that same right that men do? The right not to be imprisoned with males? The right to be able to speak about this and organise politically as a woman, with other women, without being threatened, harassed, risk losing your job or being reported by TRAs to everyone they know you know, in an attempt to ostracize you?

You mean those rights?

Yes, I think standing firm on women having these basic rights in society is worth holding firm on. Because losing these absolutely institutionalizes woman as second class citizen’s to men in our society.

That's refreshing to read. I share your priorities, to which I would add the shit state of education and the abysmally under-resourced public services generally.

Because what favours my politics sorry? I don't want the Tories to stay on another 18 months because they're a shower of shit, Penny Mordaunt is an awful human being without even the redeeming quality of knowing what a woman is, and I don't know whether I'd be happy with a Labour and Lib Dem or SNP coalition after the next GE. I thought I was clear before but I'll say it again: I'm talking about things I think might happen, not a wishlist.

And so none of this affects my point or those of the people you've been arguing with, which is that we have a political system that allows governments to do things that weren't in their manifestoes. In fact we have a recent example of a party in coalition doing something they'd explicitly said they wouldn't in theirs, ie the Lib Dems and tuition fees. Someone understanding this fact doesn't tell you anything about whether they approve of the existing system.

And I would rather be broke due to the Conservative money ideology than have more money in my pocker and see sex based rights disappear. This madness needs to be sorted out and Labour are not the party for this. I know some will say it's occurred under Tory leadership, but that's the same as saying Labour were responsible for the global recession. Trans ideology is world wide and a world wide issue.