Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think if AI becomes able to take over 100% of jobs we will live in a utopia

58 replies

StaceM · 18/07/2023 16:58

I know people are worried that AI could take over jobs right now and yes it would be very problematic if it were only taking over some or most jobs as we’d still need money, but if it took all, it’s a different story.

If AI did every job, all humans would be out of work which means no one would be getting paid. However, money is only an incentive to work and if we don’t work, we don’t need money (AI obviously will work for free and do anything we want for free). If money doesn’t exist, then poverty won’t exist. If poverty doesn’t exist, crime will be almost completely eliminated as there’s be no incentive.

If AI did every job, every human on the face of the earth could do what we want, when we want and for free. It would be a utopia. Thoughts?

OP posts:
Glowie · 18/07/2023 18:45

While this could absolutely happen at some point, the only realistic outcome is living in pods, grey jumpsuits, and rations etc.

Humanity's problem is that we live in a world of scarce (finite) resources, which means that at some point decisions must be made about who gets what. To do that, you need a method of allocating those resources i.e. currency.

Without this, then you default to allocations based on what is both achievable and 'fair'. This invariably ends with low standards for everyone because everything has to hit the lowest common denominator.

Wiccan · 18/07/2023 18:39

Would be a living nightmare . Some people in our society do fuck all as it is . I for one like to work and be productive. I would simply go batshit crazy Can't think of anything worse !

Chypre · 18/07/2023 18:38

Can AI fix world hunger or plastic waste in the world oceans? No, it needs to become silly voice another SoCiAl MEdiA MaRketIng ProFessiOnal. Meh.

Peachespeachesohpeaches · 18/07/2023 18:35

I was meant to have a hoverboard, flying car and a robot butler by the year 2000 thus enabling me to enjoy more leisure time.

I await the utopia I was promised by Blue Peter in the 1990s.

BertieBotts · 18/07/2023 18:34

I like the idea of doughnut economics too, not endless growth, but once growth gets to a certain point, start funnelling it back in and protect the lower income people from falling into the (doughnut) hole.

catlovingdoctor · 18/07/2023 18:33

Money would still be needed as otherwise what would motivate the companies to develop and maintain the AI / technology? There would have to be universal basic income. The owners of the technology, as mentioned upthread, would call all the shots. Not my idea of utopia.

BertieBotts · 18/07/2023 18:32

I think it's interesting to see people's thoughts on this because they tend to be so extreme and I think you're right, I think it could really happen. Probably not in our lifetimes. But there is definitely scope for a lot more automation, and we have enough food, resources etc for everyone, even when the population tops out at around 10/11 billion like it's supposed to do, so there's really no reason that we couldn't distribute it except that we're all stuck in the ways things have always worked forever.

My main concern is that we are highly likely to go through a very hard period of transition in between, because to get to a point where everyone's needs are provided for is quite far down the path. Whereas the current situation, where we essentially trade labour for resources in a very unequal manner, is likely to continue probably until that point comes about, but inequality will probably get more and more extreme before that point, because there isn't anything to stop that from happening, and human nature is to protect yourself and your own family/people/etc. So no rich person is going to give up their own security to ensure the security of other people that they don't care about, until something, probably a combination of politics and technology, ensures that for everybody, by which time many many millions of people will have suffered and died because they did not have adequate access to basic resources.

Also, I think it's quite likely that the suffering and deaths etc will be very unequally distributed, and at first will affect mostly groups/populations that people in rich countries have very little sympathy for, then people within rich countries that richer people have little sympathy for. It will only be when it creeps up and starts to seriously and gravely affect those who currently have privilege that people in general will take note and be likely to activate towards a solution for.

And this is all if we don't die from nuclear war or whatever other disaster first.

Has anyone else heard of game A and game B thinking? I've been reading about this since listening to a podcast about it the other day. The basic idea is that most of human endeavour has always been based on playing game A which is the idea that everything is essentially zero sum. Someone wins, someone else loses, and that being inevitable and the only possible way of anything, and the only "fair" way is either trying to ensure that people get equal chance to win and lose, or win and lose equally, or yes ok I win, but let's try to minimise the amount that you lose. Game B is more about finding solutions which benefit everyone, and the belief that this is possible, although not everyone agrees about what exactly it means or looks like. Under this theory communism is a Game A mode of being, because it's still under that win/lose framework (lose freedom in exchange for gaining security of resources).

I don't think people will just sit around doing nothing if you give them the resources that they need. But it's hard for us to imagine this because it's like the only way we could think about this is if it happened suddenly overnight. If someone suddenly came to you and said they will continue to pay you your salary from tomorrow but you never have to work again, you probably would say oh yeah great, relaxation, but it's quite unlikely to be a sudden overnight change like that.

VegetablesFightingToReclaimTheAubergieneEmoji · 18/07/2023 18:19

We all need a purpose in life.
we all need fulfilment
we all need to feel we are worthwhile

ChubbyMorticia · 18/07/2023 18:18

As someone who’s career field has already been negatively impacted by AI, I’m not in the slightest bit impressed.

AI is currently focused on creative work. Authors and artists have had their work stolen (scraped) to train it. AI being used to create book covers, PR images, etc had already been an issue. Amazon is flooded with AI generated novels, creating a massive headache for independent authors and publishers.

AI to do jobs that risk human lives is one thing. Taking over creative spaces is another, imo. There’s a lot of people who will find themselves out of a career long before any utopia happens.

Yellowlegobrick · 18/07/2023 18:14

The robots wouldn't be free, either to buy, rent, or operate

They'd require designing and manufacturing

They'd need maintaining

Even to the extent other robots could do elements of this, the people owning the design/intellectual property/software/raw material mines would want remunerating for ownership so there will always be a cost.

They will require fuel/energy to operate. More cost.then there'll be upgrades and replacing parts etc

Brokendaughter · 18/07/2023 18:10

What makes you think people would become better than they are right now?

Rich people who inherit so much they never have to work or worry about bills can be unhappy, lonely, unfulfilled, or just plain unpleasant right now. (Yes, I know, not all of them).

People without jobs or money worries can be criminals, can steal or commit violent crimes, can lie & harass.
Not all crime is motivated by money.
Rape is about power, so are many other crimes, so crime wouldn't be virtually eliminated - why else would multimillionaires be caught cheating on taxes or embezzling funds?

Not trying to say all wealthy people are dreadful, but just like everyone else, not all of them are perfect happy human beings living fulfilled lives.

Some people will still have more than others, some people will be envious, some will fall through the cracks & have terrible lives, some children will still need social workers, some people will still be murderers.

Some people will still be wildly talented at something (e.g. singing, mathematics or writing) while others are not & they will still feel envy.
Some people will still have lots of get up & go so they'll do something with their lives, while others won't bother to get out of bed except to use the bathroom.

People won't all be on an equal footing because people are not all equal in drive or ability no matter how equal their chances in life.

Why do you think will human nature be different just because someone else will be doing the 'jobs'?

fancifulmanciful · 18/07/2023 18:05

NalafromtheLionKing · 18/07/2023 17:59

Yep, there will never be true equality as that is just not human nature.

I agree. We are red in tooth and claw but civilisation has sorted some of us out to some degree that's all, and that's organised by people who work closely together. More technological advancement will only work in their favour ultimately, but I am enjoying it all at the minute.

NalafromtheLionKing · 18/07/2023 17:59

fancifulmanciful · 18/07/2023 17:47

Came to say this.

Yep, there will never be true equality as that is just not human nature.

fancifulmanciful · 18/07/2023 17:53

StaceM · 18/07/2023 17:06

@RoseBucket AI robots.

I’m not suggesting this could be done realistically in our lifetime but perhaps in the far future. Perhaps in the 22nd century or beyond.

I grew up pressing record and play together to record from the radio on a cassette tape I had to go to the shop to buy in a pack of six, and it would unravel and I'd have to get a pencil and ravel it all back.

My 7 year old says 'Alexa, play Katy Perry' and all her favourite songs come up.

It seems like a huge leap to me, and if we continue on this trajectory I do think we will see the technological singularity in our lifetime.

fancifulmanciful · 18/07/2023 17:47

Goldenspearmint · 18/07/2023 17:02

No, the people who own all the robots and tech will be in utopia, you will be living in the gated slums.

Came to say this.

heckmuffin · 18/07/2023 17:46

What you'll get is no choice over anything.

Do you like cooking new food? Doing fun things at the weekend? Wearing different clothes? Making your own decisions? You can say goodbye to all of that. Somebody far above you, with no accountability to you, will be making all of these choices for you. And for what? So you can sit around all day, with no purpose or freedom?

No such thing as utopia. If you're promised it, expect hell.

Some people seem to see universal basic income as a route towards this utopia. Again, it's the sort of thing that sounds nice, if you don't really think about what it'll really mean.

HotSince82 · 18/07/2023 17:43

It's at this point we will get the oft lauded 'next pandemic' I suppose...

Think about it, there's an awful lot of hysteria within the media surrou ding 'preparedness for the next pandemic'

Surely this begs the question; "what next pandemic?" Seeing as the one precious to covid was 100 years ago I'm not expecting to see another within my lifetime.

But rest assured, we will. Not long after AI usurps the need for us to go to work

HotSince82 · 18/07/2023 17:39

We would become useless eaters.

There would be no meed for us to exist at all. And living on government handouts we would be at the mercy of every whim mandate of those who own the means of production.

We are only allowed to exist as taxpayers/parents of future taxpayers right now. Look at how the unemployed are currently treated and give your head a wobble.

Dacadactyl · 18/07/2023 17:28

It would be a terrible idea.

Through my work I see plenty of people merely surviving on government handouts.

Not one of them is happy, nor has any disposable income.

Why are you so quick to trust the government? THEY DONT HAVE YOUR BEST INTERESTS AT HEART.

helpfulperson · 18/07/2023 17:27

Binningtonianrose · 18/07/2023 17:22

So who would change your bathroom, fix your toilet, fix your electrics, collect your bins?

The robots. We are not a million miles away from any of those being possible.

plasticwallet · 18/07/2023 17:22

No, the people who own all the robots and tech will be in utopia, you will be living in the gated slums.

this

Binningtonianrose · 18/07/2023 17:22

So who would change your bathroom, fix your toilet, fix your electrics, collect your bins?

LodiDodi · 18/07/2023 17:18

Then it only has to realise what a wasteof time and space humans are and when we are completely dependent on it, it can withdraw our life support and kill us all off.

Lovingitallnow · 18/07/2023 17:07

Have you ever heard of communism....

StaceM · 18/07/2023 17:06

@RoseBucket AI robots.

I’m not suggesting this could be done realistically in our lifetime but perhaps in the far future. Perhaps in the 22nd century or beyond.

OP posts: