To not get the Taylor swift hype?

Madonna didn't have much talent to speak of. Terrible vocalist. Her success was largely due to controversy.

I'm not a massive Madonna fan but that's absolute bull. Pop stars don't maintain decades long careers purely by being controversial.

You can adore your Taylor without having to slag off every other female vocalist y'know. It makes you sound like a 12 year old even though you're apparently a 40-something.

So my quoting lyrics didn't resonate with any of you, lol. Fine. The ones that I chose, I did so because to me they all have 2 meanings or they say something on their own.

But our minds all work in different ways. You can listen and make your own minds up.

The songs were champagne problems, cruel summer, would've could've should've (think this has previously been mentioned), enchanted (very princess pop but still fabulous).

If you want to hear examples of her songwriting that touch on more sensitive topics there's also;

Happiness (about divorce, a very very stripped back song but lyrically gorgeous)
Dear John / tolerate it (both about gaslighting kind of relationships (dear John is very slow and long but lyrically very mature))
You're on your own kid (not solely about it but touches on body issues/anorexia)
Illicit affairs (about exactly that)
Renegade (a fabulous collab with big red machine which references having a partner with depression and what that does to their relationship)
Forever winter (this was written about her friend who committed suicide and her attempts to help him. It's very uptempo though, weirdly. If you didn't listen to the lyrics you'd have no idea of the topic. It's not clear if she wrote it before or after he took his own life.)

Thing anyone that thinks TS is “generic” and “bland” should listen to that song.

I don't think much of her music/image either tbh, but it doesn't bother me that others like it. I just get on with enjoying what I enjoy. 😀

Taylor might not be your cup of tea vocally but she is mine. I've never loved big voice singers. Celine Dion was the worst for me and Adele sounds like a foghorn. Arianna and Mariah do far too much warbling.

Oh god this @NeverTalksToStrangers2 Adele. Now that is someone I don't understand the hype around. Songs are mediocre, voice is not pleasant on the ears. Arianna has an amazing voice, she can sing pretty much anything but the warbling is too much.

It’s not the most complex song, but quite raw emotionally.

re people being defensive about liking Taylor swift, I think... the difference is there is a lot of sneering (not from you, in general) about her supposedly not writing or her dancing (which is fairly irrelevant) or that all her songs are about break ups or that she’s only successful because of her dad or that she’s just fairly bland pop music.

Whereas with pink, people just go, yeah, not my cup of tea and stop there.

For the sneery music snobs who are trying so hard to be oh so cool on the other hand 😂….

If that's aimed at me, I'm not sneery at all. And if I ever got any ideas about being cool in my musical tastes, my kids would put me straight pdq. I appreciate that everyone has their likes and dislikes and that different music resonates with different people. There are some artists I love and think they are poets first, singers second. But I wouldn't quote their lyrics as they would sound vaguely ridiculous just floating there in the ether with no sound and no context. Well, most of them. There are a few notable exceptions, but that's rare.

Soon you’ll get better

In all honesty, I don’t think single lines do it justice either, I mean, they are good bridges, but just as text by themselves without any context....

You’ve got the range of things her songs cover, love, loss and break ups obviously, but also, the fear of growing older, eating disorders, anxiety, her mother’s cancer, dealing with lockdown, feminism... and loads of other things.

There are literary references, references to other songs, lots of plays on words.

Maroon for instance from midnights, not one of my favourite songs, but throughout her songs there’s lots of colours having meanings, love is red, blue, golden, depending on the song and relationship, so maroon is both the colour and the song is about a relationship ending so there’s also the stranded meaning of it as well. It has a line - that’s a real fucking legacy to leave and it’s both the standard leaving a legacy but also could be that the legacy is, to leave...

Even the fairly simple catchy pop songs (glitter gel pen ones as she calls them) are about something.

There’s a lot of storytelling, where the music gradually builds as the story develops, and things like what sound like cheery pop songs suddenly having devastatingly sad lyrics.

She’s taken bits of country music and bits of indie music and wrapped them up in a nice pop music package.

The lyrics quoted look pretty rubbish and generic which have been quoted they aren't ground breaking.

There is no point quoting lyrics in isolation as it's meaningless.

It's not being a snob that stating her music isn't groundbreaking and is generic.

It’s for the benefit of anybody who is genuinely interested in understanding the hype ( as OP claims to be)

For the sneery music snobs who are trying so hard to be oh so cool on the other hand 😂….

Yes I agree those examples all work better in context. I don't think quoting individual lyrics really illustrates what people mean when they say she's a good lyricist.

I was talking about Beyonces father.

My 17yo DD is a huge swiftie but also a huge Bruce fan! We saw him twice on tour in the past few months, and we've just bought tickets to see Taylor next year. It's not like it's either or! Kids like different things

YANBU

i can’t stand her and thankfully neither can my teen DDs

I don't think quoting lyrics helps at all. It's a bit cringe inducing. Perhaps they are effective in context, but in isolation they just sound so very ordinary. Well, to me anyway.

@User10486743 could be because I don't have a TV, don't listen to the radio and my kids are not interested in this kid of music. It somehow passed me by, I listen to a lot of stuff but not to the contemporary pop music. In my old life, I only listened to in because of the radio, when driving to work.

I'll admit that I get quite defensive of Taylor. Probably because I'm also gen x and 10 years older than her, but mostly because she has been criticised her entire career.

People not believing she writes the songs. Why? Is it because she's beautiful? Female? Blonde? Her age?
If she was male would anyone question it? Does anyone question Ed Sheeran?

Why did Damon Albarn (also from money) believe that Billie Eilish wrote her songs (when they are all co written with her brother), but that Taylor didn't because she (sometimes) uses other writers and producers?

And the criticism she got over her love life was ridiculous. I definitely kissed more frogs than she did in my teens-20s. I'll admit she has had terrible taste in men at times, but we've all been there too.

The comparison to Madonna only goes so far. Madonna didn't have much talent to speak of. Terrible vocalist. Her success was largely due to controversy. I was too young to appreciate her but my sisters did. Back then I just remember she was considered badly behaved.

Taylor might not be your cup of tea vocally but she is mine. I've never loved big voice singers. Celine Dion was the worst for me and Adele sounds like a foghorn. Arianna and Mariah do far too much warbling.

A big big part of the Taylor hype is her love of bridges. Every single song has a bridge that adds something extra. Some of the bridge lyrics are actual perfection.

Some that stand out (but there are 100s) are:

"She would've made such a lovely bride, what a shame she's fucked in the head", they said..

Living for the thrill of hitting you where it hurts.
Give me back my girlhood it was mine first

He looks up grinning like a devil
(This one is yelled and it's so good. It also sounds like "he looks so pretty like a devil", which also works).

Please don't be in love with someone else.
Please don't have somebody waiting on you.

Honestly, they are iconic when they come. She has such a gift.

“The songs that have been suggested in here have beautiful lyrics. She is an incredible poet. I just don't see what puts her leagues above her peers.”

The lyrics... it is the lyrics.

She’s not an exceptional singer, I think she’s good and often underrated because she’s an alto, but yeah there are better singers.

Musically shes again good, she does play about with genres a bit, but fairly mainstream, nothing really groundbreaking.

But her lyrics are what makes her (to me obviously) better than her peers.

My DP doesn’t get her, it’s a topic that’s come up recently because of the tickets 🤣 but he doesn’t really pay attention to lyrics, where that’s mostly what I’m listening to. Not completely obviously or I’d just listen to poetry, but it’s a huge part of why I’ll like or dislike a song.