To not get the Taylor swift hype?

It’s like when books written by women that mainly women enjoyed were dismissed as “chick lit”

Dunno, I think she does get more than people on a similar level... Damon Albarn wouldn’t name Beyoncé in an article as not writing her songs... people might tweet about it, but not give interviews like that. 🤷‍♀️

But men are absolutely judged differently.

Ed Sheeran - fairish comparison as there’s a crossover between their music, literally and stylistically... though he’s not as big and has less work and range IMO (vocal and musical range)

No complaints about his lack of dancing or that he performs in jeans an a t shirt, no questioning whether he really writes his own songs or not, no condemnation about only writing songs about exes, even when he does.

People have opinions on how good he is or not, or whether he’s to their taste, but not the same stuff women are judged on.

I'm not a particularly big Taylor Swift fan though. I've only listened to her really because my daughter likes her but I was very surprised at just how much she has written, the lyrics and the diversity of the songs including lyrics. I haven't seen that so much with the other artists you mention and I also haven't seen them being called “average” as much .

I think the more famous someone is, the more criticism they get. And Taylor Swift is one of the most famous people on the planet. The criticism she and her 'hysterical' fans get tends towards misogynistic contempt and dismissiveness of art that explores women's lives. I see it in all areas where someone who strikes a chord with girls and/or women is seen as silly, frivolous and of intrinsically less value than art that is created by men and that explores men's interior lives. The standards by which women are judged are very different.

That was Beyoncé and pink I meant btw 🤣 I deleted a line that didn’t make sense and managed to make the whole post not make sense

“I don't think TS gets much more criticism than any other artists. But TS fans will think this, because they know more about TS and what she gets criticised about than other singers they're not huge fans of.”

Maybe... I might just not see it because I’m not a fan of theirs in particular, but I mean... I do listen to both of them, I would read stuff about them if I saw it pop up.

I don’t mean by individuals btw, I mean publicly.

So two other people and you are incorrect about one of them as I don't think Billie Eilish wrote ocean eyes. Regardless nobody (quite rightly) calls Pink and Billie Eilish average..

Billie Eillish didn’t write ocean eyes.

I mean, doesn’t take away from your point that lots of songwriters start young, but she didn’t write it.

Not sure why people are shading OP though, they seem very balanced- guessing maybe people haven't bothered reading the replies?

She writes so perceptively, honestly and insightfully about the emotional lives of women

This is the crux of it I expect, we know things associated with women are seen as lesser and its very rare for the feelings and emotions of women to be centred in popular culture unless its sexual. She also doesn't pander to the fantasies of men in her music or in her music videos etc. She is no doubt gorgeous and not dismissing the societal beauty standard of being slim and blonde; but she also doesn't look and dress much differently to many women and girls who have related to her thought her career as she's grown up. It's fine not to like her of course it is, but the lengths some go to discredit her rather than simply say nah I don't get it is sad.

Pink wrote family portrait at 13.
Billie Eilish wrote ocean eyes at the same age.

Yes but they haven't felt the need to go about eds background and whether he's deserving or success, or repeating things the press reported from years ago that somehow proved his music is shite- they simply say nah not a fan I don't get why so many are. I'm not sure why you're 'suspicious' of people saying this about her songs usually in response to people saying she doesn't write them herself, they're generic pop or whatever.

The difference is that most people who don't like Ed sheeran for example will simply say- I don't like him his songs are boring; which of course is an opinion and fine. With TS there are some (not all) who seem to want to justify why she's crap and why she's only successful because of her background. Why the additional layer of proving how rubbish she is when it comes to a female singer? It's not all female singers either, same with pink if people dislike her music they don't tend to then repeat half truths or twist what they've read in the press to try and discredit her and then also sometimes mock those who do like. It's just curious really, it's not like taylor gives a shit!

Recent years?? Her first album came out in 2006 and she’s currently doing a record breaking stadium tour… how many people on your “conveyor belt of mediocrity” are managing that?

I’m pretty sure she’s talking about the misogyny in how female artists are criticised - not that if you don’t like specific ones it’s misogyny.

Exactly, loads of people have said they don't like Ed Sheeran but they have ignored that.

And comparing them with a dead singer like George Michael is plain bizarre.

I'm deeply suspicious of some of these people who are stating the deep meanings behind the songs etc, it's as if they have never heard any music before, and they are sounding pretentious.

She is far more prolific and talented than ...

(insert artist of choice.) Seriously, that's always going to be a matter of opinion.

And why does misogyny always have to be brought into the discussion? Most of the posters who have stated preferences have mentioned female artists, eg Pink and Beyoncé. Do women lose their right to a critical voice just because the artist in question is female? I like, among others, Kate Bush, Tori Amos and Sia. I don't automatically jump to cries of misogyny when others express dislike of these artists. I'm also not defensive because I have confidence in my own musical tastes. I don't need anyone's approval. The OP said she didn't get the hype around Taylor Swift. A small number of posters have answered with wonderful, thoughtful, insightful answers which actually answer the question. The rest have flown straight to accusations of misogyny and musical snobbery - which says more about them than they realise.

@EdwardianTable What a great comment!

Absolutely agree with every word Edwardian. She is far more prolific and talented than say George Michael for example and he is generally sainted. There’s a misogynist tint to the criticism. That’s why women get defensive.

Her albums are surprisingly diverse really, she leans into quite a few genres and the singles don't usually reflect the rest of the album. I have some albums I'm not as keen on and definitely although I really like her have some skips; but definitely recommend having a listen!

Folklore seems to be the album that made people who’d never really listened to her go listen to her, if that helps?

But tbh, you could listen to the albums they’re on and they’re nothing like that 😂 her singles are usually nothing like the rest of the album.

She writes so perceptively, honestly and insightfully about the emotional lives of women. Any woman who does that tends to be disparaged and compared unfavourably to 'real' music (or books or poetry, depending on the art in question). 'Real' music or literature is, of course, always created by men. The word 'hysteria' is deeply misogynistic and makes me flinch and this gets to the root of some people's eagerness to insist a phenomenally successful woman's success is inexplicable or not truly earned. She has made an incredible emotional connection with her fans through her songwriting and while she won't connect with everyone, it's disingenuous to try to dismiss that.

The stress and intensity around getting tickets to see her has been next level; I think that's indicative of the mess that major event ticketing has become largely because of scalpers and the need to try to get tickets to fans rather than profiteerers. It requires all this faff around preorders and codes, and even so there are tickets up online for thousands of pounds within minutes of the sales going live - imagine what it would be like if they didn't have the additional layers of security in place.

Ultimately, there are plenty of bands and singers and writers who don't resonate with me but I understand there are devoted fans who find their work powerful even if it passes me by. Taylor's albums chronicle a girl then woman's interior life in a way that I find really special. You don't have to like her, no one does and that's fine, but there is an edge of misogyny in a lot of the criticism that isn't fair.