To hate how mums always have to sacrifice their career...

Wow! My children must be super human then, seeing as they've been to top universities and have great jobs while I, their mother dared to have my own career too!

I'm out for late lunch now so good afternoon and bye.

Ffs my daughter is at Cambridge. The other is in one of the top school in the U.K. Education is a massive thing for me (largely) and why I have been a SAHM. Stop being so patronising and narrow-minded. They can and will do whatever they want. And no, I won't tell them they are failures in life if they don't have the obligatory 'STEM career' with kids in nursery asap.

But just don't encourage them too much. You know, so they don't go against their biological destiny of being with their children rather than handing them over to the mean old strangers, those other women, you know....

"The point of encouraging women in STEM is they're seen as men jobs which ironically is highly and well paid. Unlike caring sectors e.g. teaching/social work which is predominantly done by women"

You don't say?

Well if we're talking age, I'm quite old! Not ancient but at the tail end of my career.

Frankly it's as simple as this: dh and I are both educated to the same level, we're both as skilled and capable of earning. We also both wanted children, and were both equally capable of changing nappies, doing nursery drop offs, housework, cooking dinner....

I imagine many couples are similar; they don't want to be pigeonholed into earner and carer because they're good at and enjoy both things.

As someone heading towards 60, this was how I felt 30 years ago when the odds were stacked against women far more than nowadays (short ML, no transferable parental leave etc)

I have a dd and ds (now adult) and I'm glad that they too don't pigeonhole themselves as heading towards 'carer' or 'earner' either.

Sissynova - you just keep repeating yourself. It's doing my head in.

How can I 'judge working women?' WHICH ONES?

Yes, I have to be honest, I would judge SOME women. Just like you clearly do. Would I put a child in a boarding school at 7? No. Would I put a 12 week old in nursery at 12 weeks or 6 weeks? No. Would I be a SAHM with a nanny or staff as well. No. We all have our limits - things we would do and things we wouldn't. But that's not judging 'working women' in general BECAUSE THEY ARE ALL DIFFERENT.

Summer holiday childcare costs reduce as they get older so it’s only for a few years then you come out the other side. If you can come out with a job you enjoy then all the better. I worked part time initially then full time as dc were in juniors.

The point of encouraging women in STEM is they're seen as men jobs which ironically is highly and well paid. Unlike caring sectors e.g. teaching/social work which is predominantly done by women.

Literally saying that people who work and put their children in childcare are doing worse by their children than people treat puppies. But no judgement or agenda in your posts hey @norestguests

"The point is women shouldn't be encouraged to SAHM, it brings up power imbalance and women should have a seat at the table. Women should be encourages in STEM and technology. I don't understand why it's acceptable for men to have careers, but women it isn't even when they're "highly educated and competent" as you put it."

Of course it's acceptable for women to have careers! What are you even talking about? I'm saying some families may organise differently for a whole host of reasons. Yes, women need a 'seat at the table' but there are many seats at many tables! Encourage girls in STEM by all means, but not at the exclusion of them being who they want to be.

@norestguests we get it. You think women’s sole purpose is for their life to entirely revolve around their children, but the same doesn’t apply to fathers funnily enough.
You don’t feel comfortable with the idea of nanny, you don’t like children in nursery, but at the same time you claim not to judge women who continue to work full time. Okay.

Are you quite old @norestguests ?

Depends what you call young, but I'm early 30's..

Very true! I just hate the narrative every women should be a SAHM and nothing else. Women are allowed to have careers. I just don't see why women are still considered inferior in the 21st century. There isn't a "daddy track" at work...

Are you quite young anonymousxoxo?

Lots of 2 parent working families around here have nannies from the Phillipines who have left their own children at home. I would not feel comfortable with that at all, but it happens. I wouldn't feel comfortable with a nanny at all, but plenty of families have them, even families with a SAHM.

Oh fgs what matters is that children are raised to become emotionally well adjusted adults who will live happy and successful lives.

It can be done in many ways: in families with WOHP as well as in families with a SAHP.
Oh and for what it's worth, I'm one of those terrible women who used childcare when my baby was 12 weeks old, because, newsflash, maternity leave used to be very short. However, at least I had maternity leave, unlike my mum's generation who didn't have the choice to have a good careers as well as motherhood.

My kids are now happy, well balanced adults (and I've had a good career and pension into the bargain!) then really, that's what matters. No doubt they'd also be happy well balanced adults if I or DH had SAH too.

Feels like a few posters are threatened by other people's decisions.

The point is women shouldn't be encouraged to SAHM, it brings up power imbalance and women should have a seat at the table. Women should be encourages in STEM and technology. I don't understand why it's acceptable for men to have careers, but women it isn't even when they're "highly educated and competent" as you put it.

@anonymousxoxo - There are women who don't see their kids all week. Some are friends of mine. Yes this is extreme, sure, but it happens. In one case the DH is a SAHD,

I have SAHM friends with children in boarding school from age 8. I have SAHM friends with live-in nannies and staff. I have SAHM friends, as you describe, with banker or some such husbands who work very long fixed hours and I imagine they're quite hands off. But I have other SAHM friends whose husbands hardly work at all because they don't need to anymore. I have a SAHM friend who can't work as she has MS. I have a SAHM friend whose DH is a controlling wanker, but tbh, most of my friends DH's are just very decent men and hands-on dads. I have SAHM friends who do all sorts. Some do a lot of charity work and are super-busy. Often you can't tell who is doing paid work and who is doing non-paid work. I know many, many SAHMs who start businesses, to varying degrees. All are highly educated, competent women. I know couples where neither work because they don't need to anymore. I know SAHMs with 4 or 5 children, even one with 2 sets of twins. Some people have children with a disability. There are so many scenarios which is why posts that start with "SAHM are ..," are daft. Some SAHMs are trapped. Some are financially vulnerable. But equally others are set up for life. Just like the billion variations of women who work.

Yeah, that makes sense. No judgment from me. They’re trying to provide a better future for their children! My parents came from India to the UK to give us a better life.

I know mums who have left young children with grandma and moved to the uk from the Philippines to do care work, live in house shares (hot bedding even) for 2 years, because they send the money home and believe from the bottom of their hearts this huge scarifice will get their child out of abject poverty.

Tbh, I don’t know any mothers who would choose not to see their children for a whole week. Majority of the mothers opt for going part time and working flexibility, hence “mummy track” which is what it’s referred to. I haven’t heard of “Daddy track”? If anything, working mothers who choose to work full time gets judged the hardest, even though the father is also working full time.

Don't 'judge SAHMs' because they are millions of women world wide in all kids of circumstances. If you don't like aspects of my life, fine. But I don't represent 'SAHMs'. So stop all this 'SAHM are this and that' because its drivel.

I am not anti-working mum at all. What do you even mean by a working mum - someone who works a few hours down this road, someone who WFH, someone who doesn't see their kids in the week? How can you be 'anti-working mum' when you don't even know which one your talking about?