To hate how mums always have to sacrifice their career...

Oh god, this is like a systematic sexism bingo thread now. Male protector, women biologically programmed for care roles, 🙄

No wonder we are so far from equality when even women are perpetuating this crap.

"Am I high?"

No, bussteward. Just on AIBU.

When they split up? 🤣 Who is to say they will split up?

Maybe some women on here have internalised that they need to be at work to be properly valued? Or they've internalised that anything traditionally female is 'lesser' and any difference to men is 'inequality.' Those women did not make choices 'in a vacuum' any more than a SAHM did. In fact, being a SAHM is probably 'going against the grain' of societal expectations nowadays. Still, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

Firstly I think you're vastly overstating the degree of progress that's occurred in society over the past 50 years if you think the majority of women feel they need to work to be "properly valued". Some of the comments on this thread demonstrate how far we are from this: there are still people who are actively hostile to the idea of women using childcare and someone on this thread actually said that men are "biologically career driven", which is one of the most frighteningly ignorant things I've read on here in a long time. If society now buys into inequality a lot of people clearly didn't get that memo

Secondly most of us don't work in order to "feel valued". We work primarily to support ourselves and to a lesser extent because we enjoy it. I'm not in the habit of making major choices in my life to "feel valued". I do them because I want to do them and because they benefit my family.

I am wondering the same thing.

'I will get around to it'. Wonder how the husband feels about that. Maybe it's what works for them, though.

I would never put myself in this precarious situation that's for sure.

A perfect example of this is something I experience regularly. I travel for work regularly and I guarantee that on every trip someone asks whose babysitting my child. When my husband travels not one person asks him this question.

I have a similar example. I don't travel for work regularly but occasionally an opportunity comes up, I was surprised a few months ago when I didn't even seem to be considered like usual and when I asked about what I could do to improve etc I was told that I wasn't asked just because he didn't think I'd want to leave my baby.

He had no concerns about any of the men leaving their young children.

I suppose in Ukraine they should have evacuated all the men and kept all the women over 18 to fight the Russians.
Didn’t this thread start out with OP fancying a job that didn’t use up her weekend? Am I high?

And nobody makes choices in a vacuum no, but society is ever-evolving and the norms that are internalised now, are not the same norms as 20, 50, 100 years ago. Maybe some women on here have internalised that they need to be at work to be properly valued? Or they've internalised that anything traditionally female is 'lesser' and any difference to men is 'inequality.' Those women did not make choices 'in a vacuum' any more than a SAHM did. In fact, being a SAHM is probably 'going against the grain' of societal expectations nowadays. Still, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

I've never said that being a SAHM is a bad thing.

There will be individual women who have internalised ideas about work and being valued and undoubtedly these ideas will be a product of their experiences and upbringing.
However, women as a class are still socialised into caring roles. That's not really up for debate as the evidence is overwhelming.

The most recent example of this is during the pandemic. It was women that took on the vast majority of childcare, homeschooling and caring for the elderly and vulnerable. There is no evidence that this was due to biology. It was due to societal expectations and structures.

I deliver a lecture every year which looks at women and work. Not only is the evidence there to support what I'm saying but the experience of the people I teach does too.

A perfect example of this is something I experience regularly. I travel for work regularly and I guarantee that on every trip someone asks whose babysitting my child. When my husband travels not one person asks him this question.

Wtf? Not in my partnership. Speak for yourself!

"Why should they have different priorities and values purely because they have given birth?"

Well they may not, but also they may do. Who is to say how they should feel or what their priorities should be. Especially if they have several children? It can change your outlook.

Of course not but it is an issue that needs to be tackled for the women who do want or need to work.

It's still expected in society for mothers to be the ones who care for their children so no, it isn't going against the grain at all.

Good lord, I have no words for this tripe. I guess you love your kids more than any of the working mothers on here, @wendyjoy. Well done, have a medal.

"and the women who don't choose that? They are often battling with the gender pay gap, competing with men who have SAHM's at home doing everything for them and that's just a start."

Possibly, but you can't tell families how they should organise themselves. Anyway there are all kinds of factors that could be seen as an advantage or disadvantage to men and women in the workplace - how many kids do they have, do their kids have special needs, are they all in good health, do they have family support? All kinds of variables. You can't blame everything on SAHMs! That's madness. It's like SAHMs arguing working women make it less acceptable for them to be home with their children. Er, no. What are you going to do about people's personal choices, realistically?

And nobody makes choices in a vacuum no, but society is ever-evolving and the norms that are internalised now, are not the same norms as 20, 50, 100 years ago. Maybe some women on here have internalised that they need to be at work to be properly valued? Or they've internalised that anything traditionally female is 'lesser' and any difference to men is 'inequality.' Those women did not make choices 'in a vacuum' any more than a SAHM did. In fact, being a SAHM is probably 'going against the grain' of societal expectations nowadays. Still, doesn't mean it's a bad thing.

@norestguests

Women may choose a different life balance after children. There is financial disadvantage sure, but maybe they have different priorities and values?

But why should women financially disadvantage themselves just because they have given birth to children?

Why should they have different priorities and values purely because they have given birth?

You seem to be taking as read that biology determines women's appetite to make money. There's absolutely no biological underpinning to this whatsoever. This is purely socially determined.

Work is not the be all and end all of life.

Is it for your husband?

They range from 16 to 5. It's like herding sheep most days 😆

Work is not the be all and end all of life. I will get around to it at some point. But the upside is I am around for all sickness at nurseries and schools at short notice, and for all holidays throughout the academic year. I am enrolled with the OU to start a degree course in a few months which will be lovely to start doing something during the day which offers flexibility.

@Lambiriyani Men are biologically more career driven

At this point you’ve got to be here just to wind up.

I'd highly recommend reading Invisible Women for those who think that biology explains the disadvantages women face.....

and the women who don't choose that? They are often battling with the gender pay gap, competing with men who have SAHM's at home doing everything for them and that's just a start.

Men are not biologically more career driven at all. Where did you get that from?

Society pushes that onto men, not biology.

"No one is talking about telling women to do anything but it's a demonstrable fact that women are at a massive disadvantage in their ability to earn money compared to men once they have children."

Women may choose a different life balance after children. There is financial disadvantage sure, but maybe they have different priorities and values?

Where did I say that STEM is better? Just because it's compulsory in schools, it doesn't always mean that girls are encouraged just as much as boys. Even if they do show interest.

Do you think boys ( and men) are more suited to STEM subjects and careers?
Do you think you made your education and career choices in a complete vacuum with no influences at all?

Men are biologically more career driven, physically stronger (then would be better at strenuous physical labour).
On average men are physically stronger than women so yes you are correct about that however there is NO EVIDENCE that men are biologically more career driven than women. Not one scrap.

Society places particular expectations on men and women with regards careers but that's not biologically driven.
Believe me...i teach and research this for a living!

@Lambiriyani

"biologically more career driven", eh? Can you point to any peer-reviewed evidence that demonstrates a biological underpinning to men being more "career driven"?

Can you tell me more about these "associated genetics"?

I'd be happily proven wrong

You are absolutely wrong. There is nothing biological underpinning men being more financially successful. That is social, not biological.