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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think this driving manoeuvre was both safe and legal?

268 replies

AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 16:49

Arguing with my dad who was the passenger!

3 lane motorway. I was in the left lane, cruising around 70 as no one in front. Came up to a car in the centre lane doing around 50mph. The right lane was running fast, I’d guess over 70.

I assessed the safest thing to do was carry on being very vigilant and slow a little bit and steadily pass the slow car in my lane at around 60. The alternative was get behind it then attempt to accelerate into the fast flowing right lane, accelerating in between higher powered cars from a much lower speed. I’d been forced to slow a bit on approach already, there was no obvious gap in the right lane which everyone as crowding into on approach from the centre lane. The middle car clearly wasn’t shifting, the left lane ahead of me was very clear. The road wasn’t otherwise particularly busy, the right lane was just busy because of this car.

I was very aware, ultimately had a hard shoulder for emergency and I was watching the car well for any sign of switching lane.

iabu- you should have crossed back and forth over two lanes, as it’s always the passing lane
Ianbu- this was the safest way of dealing with the hazard.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
SinnerBoy · 28/05/2023 00:21

QuintanaRoo · Yesterday 17:51

...and he said he couldn’t undertake. So he’d literally stop on the m25 even though the road was clear. He wouldn’t believe me when I said it was ok to keep going!

On the first bike lesson where I went on a dial carriageway, the left lane was empty and the right lane was full of traffic doing 40 to 45.

I matched their speed and when I came off at the next exit, the instructor stopped me and asked what the Hell I'd been playing at. He told me I should have accelerated to 70 and that it's perfectly legal to do the limit in that situation.

And that if I'd done it on a test, I'd have failed. So, OP drove correctly and legally.

Shodan · 28/05/2023 00:01

It isn't illegal. The Highway Code makes that very clear by its use of language- illegal actions are headed by the words MUST NOT, in bold type. I'm rather shocked that some people don't appear to know the difference.

It may be deemed careless driving, but it would depend on the traffic in the outside lane/other circumstances. If , for example, the outside lane was as congested as the OP says, it would be unsafe to slow her speed to go in behind the middle lane hogger and then attempt to get into the outside lane, as the OP would have to attempt to match their speed to enter the flow of traffic. It's entirely possible that her manoeuvre would be deemed the safest option given the circumstances.

As an aside, it does infuriate me that people get into the outside lane and stay there. Very poor drivers, all of them. But no doubt they all consider themselves to be amazing drivers.

MightyEagle · 27/05/2023 23:17

When I had to do a speed awareness course (so clearly I'm not always the best judge of driving matters! But this isn't my opinion, it's the opinion of the instructors running the course) we were told that it's OK to undertake like that- the person in the "faster" lane should have pulled over as they weren't overtaking.

Cantthinkofaname2203 · 27/05/2023 23:11

jools85 · 27/05/2023 23:07

My husband is a Driving Instructor, there's no way he'd let me off with this, apparently it's both illegal and extremely dangerous. Your Dad is correct but I totally get where you're coming from 😀

It’s not illegal.

jools85 · 27/05/2023 23:07

My husband is a Driving Instructor, there's no way he'd let me off with this, apparently it's both illegal and extremely dangerous. Your Dad is correct but I totally get where you're coming from 😀

theGooHasGone · 27/05/2023 22:54

There's no point arguing with all the middle lane apologists. Highway code rule 264 says drive on the left unless overtaking. It isn't the law (sadly), just a suggestion. If there was more proactive police enforcement it might stop people doing it.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 21:47

Out of interest for the ‘never undertake’ people.

If it was a dual carriageway and someone was in the right lane doing well under the speed limit on an empty road- what would you do? Like this, at least 20mpb or more than what you’d expect the road to be. Weren’t going to shift

OP posts:
DumpedByText · 27/05/2023 21:39

It's not undertaking if the lane to the right of you is going slower than your lane. You were right, you can't brake and slow down just because they are hogging the middle!

Curseofthenation · 27/05/2023 21:32

Apart from in a traffic jam of course.

Curseofthenation · 27/05/2023 21:31

I would not undertake in any circumstance. It's careless and not worth the risk of an accident. I say that as someone that is very irritated by middle lane hoggers and drives at a 70 on motorways. You were in the wrong. Your dad is right.

You can convince yourself all you like.

chupachucks · 27/05/2023 21:23

The emails I have received from numerous forces always say they have reviewed the footage and the vehicles involved with be dealt traced and the driver with either be given a driver awareness course, fine or points. The emails usually come through 3 days after submitting the footage after they have been reviewed. You are reminded not to share the footage on social media and to keep it encase it goes to court.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 21:19

chupachucks · 27/05/2023 21:17

Oh dear op you don't really know much do you , failing to provide information regarding who was driving the vehicle at the time after receiving a NIP, results in you will receive a fine of up to £1,000, 6 penalty points on your driving licence and/or a disqualification from driving.

So tracing a driver is not really an issue any more , as long as the registration is clearly visible on dashcam footage and you are deemed to have broken the law or have unacceptable driving standards you will be notified and asked to provide information on who was driving or receive 6 points.

Show quote history

Now hold the stick at the other end and read slowly.

Im saying:
The emails you receive
They have a link
You can follow up the outcome of the footage
You don’t need to just tell us ‘they will trace the driver’
You can actually look up the outcome of your footage

OP posts:
Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 21:17

User1529865 · 27/05/2023 21:15

People that think they are good drivers and come on here spouting this are generally the worst drivers in real life

Probably the ones in the middle lane ensuring everyone is at a ‘safe’ speed

OP posts:
chupachucks · 27/05/2023 21:17

AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 21:11

Any the outcomes? The replies have a link to follow it up it says. Not just to say they will trace

Oh dear op you don't really know much do you , failing to provide information regarding who was driving the vehicle at the time after receiving a NIP, results in you will receive a fine of up to £1,000, 6 penalty points on your driving licence and/or a disqualification from driving.

So tracing a driver is not really an issue any more , as long as the registration is clearly visible on dashcam footage and you are deemed to have broken the law or have unacceptable driving standards you will be notified and asked to provide information on who was driving or receive 6 points.

User1529865 · 27/05/2023 21:15

People that think they are good drivers and come on here spouting this are generally the worst drivers in real life

NoTouch · 27/05/2023 21:14

AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 17:20

As advice. Not illegal. I acknowledge the advice, but not an offence

Show quote history

Undertaking itself is not a specific offence, but you could be done for careless driving for undertaking at speed on a flowing motorway.

They were wrong to hog the middle lane you were dangerous undertaking and the police would pull you over rather than them.

Anyone who doesn't feel able to get into the correct lane and thinks undertaking is ok, shouldnt be on motorways.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 21:11

Any the outcomes? The replies have a link to follow it up it says. Not just to say they will trace

OP posts:
chupachucks · 27/05/2023 21:07

AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 20:59

I have to admit- As someone who reported a car hitting my parked car, gave the details of a witness and offered to provide ring doorbell footage with a clear view of the numberplate and couldn’t get a police reaction… it doesn’t really make me think it’s a productive hobby

Show quote history

Between October and December last year, the Force received 326 Operation Snap video submissions from a total of 202 individual witnesses, resulting in 180 Notice of Intended Prosecution (NIP) letters being sent to registered vehicle owners.

https://www.northants.police.uk/news/northants/news/news/2022/february/more-examples-of-poor-driver-behaviour-captured-on-dash-cam-footage-on-the-countys-roads/

Also for the both of you I have numerous emails from the police, informing me they are going to trace the drivers from uploaded Dashcam videos. So scoff all you like but I'm not the one who cannot drive responsibly or safely, 🙄

Also for those on MN who want to report people like the OP and make our roads safer places to drive, https://nextbase.co.uk/national-dash-cam-safety-portal/

national-dash-cam-safety-portal

https://nextbase.co.uk/national-dash-cam-safety-portal

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 21:06

I think most posters don’t actually understand the Highway Code. It’s not a law. For example the first rules are for pedestrians. For example Pedestrians:
Rule 3Help other road users to see you. Wear or carry something light-coloured, bright or fluorescent in poor daylight conditions. When it is dark, use reflective materials (eg armbands, sashes, waistcoats, jackets, footwear), which can be seen by drivers using headlights up to three times as far away as non-reflective materials.

Do posters think if they send their dashcam footage in of a bloke in a black jacket walking at night by the side of the road the police will prosecute?

It’s not a legal document document containing Highway laws. Whilst it govern show to use the road, it’s not a list of offences. Offences are separate, eg driving without care and attention. Obviously ignoring a rule MAY constitute a legal offence, but it’s not automatic and they aren’t the same thing.

No one can be prosecuted or fined for ‘breaking the Highway code’, though an offence can arise from not following it. So a careful undertake, done safely in certain circumstances is not necessarily an offence. A reckless or careless one is.

OP posts:
Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 20:59

Aeth · 27/05/2023 20:34

This! I do often wonder, when driving, if anyone is sad/petty enough to report every driving misdemeanour they see... Of course MN confirms it. 😂
I also strongly suspect these are the people who don't five sufficient space to lorries, etc. when switching lanes.

Show quote history

I have to admit- As someone who reported a car hitting my parked car, gave the details of a witness and offered to provide ring doorbell footage with a clear view of the numberplate and couldn’t get a police reaction… it doesn’t really make me think it’s a productive hobby

OP posts:
LindorDoubleChoc · 27/05/2023 20:57

Yabu. It's undertaking. You move into the middle lane and then you wait for a gap to get into the fast lane to overtake him. Inconvenient, yes. Annoying, yes. Against the Highway Code to undertake - always yes.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 20:57

Howzthatmum · 27/05/2023 20:20

@AmazonAmazine I'm just wondering how you got in this situation in the first place, because it seems like you were not concentrating on your surroundings or driving.

If you were driving in the left hand lane at 70mph and you were making ground on a driver in the central lane hogging it at 50mph and taking notice of what was ahead of you, like any other competent driver you would have noticed this and had sufficient time to position yourself in the outermost right hand lane before you got to him. But no you continued in the most dangerous way, go to close and then made a late decision to undertake him.

The spurious claims about faster cars doing 70-80 in the outermost lane is an excuse because you are not competent enough to drive on a motorway, I have driven most cars both big and small every single car on the road is capable of driving in the outermost lane. If you are not capable enough to overtake a middle lane hogger doing 50mph, by joining the outside lane in a manoeuvre that literally takes a matter of seconds then you should not be on the roads.

My lane was clear. The middle lane I just saw cars moving right until I saw them…. How would I see them until there were no cars between us? By which point I was reasonably close

OP posts:
Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 20:51

hennythe100footbird · 27/05/2023 20:37

Many years ago I worked for a driving school, we had to deal with a man who had been imprisoned and lost his licence for death by dangerous driving. He had undertaken a car on the motorway and caused an accident killing the occupants of the other vehicle. Once out of prison and ban was up, he had to retake his driving test. It's something that has always stuck with me, despite this being 20+ years ago so I never, ever do it personally although I see it often. It even terrifies the life out of me in a contra flow when the slow lane is moving faster. It always makes me think of that man and those poor people 😢

If you are terrified by contra flow genuinely I really recommend talking to someone. It’s well outside a normal reaction to a second hand story and stress and anxiety you can shift. If you are perceiving everyday driving situations as terrifying and they impact your judgement it’s a risk. Trying to phrase this kindly.

OP posts:
GiveupHQ · 27/05/2023 20:43

underneaththeash · 27/05/2023 20:27

No, the person driving in the middle lane at 50 is a twat and dangerous. If that’s you - do not do it , it’s dangerous.

Show quote history

he is being a twat. Yes. I didn’t say he wasn’t.

as are you given your response

hennythe100footbird · 27/05/2023 20:37

Many years ago I worked for a driving school, we had to deal with a man who had been imprisoned and lost his licence for death by dangerous driving. He had undertaken a car on the motorway and caused an accident killing the occupants of the other vehicle. Once out of prison and ban was up, he had to retake his driving test. It's something that has always stuck with me, despite this being 20+ years ago so I never, ever do it personally although I see it often. It even terrifies the life out of me in a contra flow when the slow lane is moving faster. It always makes me think of that man and those poor people 😢