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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

To think this driving manoeuvre was both safe and legal?

268 replies

AmazonAmazine · 27/05/2023 16:49

Arguing with my dad who was the passenger!

3 lane motorway. I was in the left lane, cruising around 70 as no one in front. Came up to a car in the centre lane doing around 50mph. The right lane was running fast, I’d guess over 70.

I assessed the safest thing to do was carry on being very vigilant and slow a little bit and steadily pass the slow car in my lane at around 60. The alternative was get behind it then attempt to accelerate into the fast flowing right lane, accelerating in between higher powered cars from a much lower speed. I’d been forced to slow a bit on approach already, there was no obvious gap in the right lane which everyone as crowding into on approach from the centre lane. The middle car clearly wasn’t shifting, the left lane ahead of me was very clear. The road wasn’t otherwise particularly busy, the right lane was just busy because of this car.

I was very aware, ultimately had a hard shoulder for emergency and I was watching the car well for any sign of switching lane.

iabu- you should have crossed back and forth over two lanes, as it’s always the passing lane
Ianbu- this was the safest way of dealing with the hazard.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
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GiveupHQ · 28/05/2023 09:02

AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:51

It’s been worthwhile because some people have shared the info given directly on speed awareness courses. That’s really useful and was what I was looking for- if anyone had direct knowledge

Show quote history

I’m guessing you passed your driving test before the theory test was introduced?

GiveupHQ · 28/05/2023 08:59

Definition of a Rule

. one of a set of explicit or understood regulations or principles governing conduct or procedure within a particular area of activity.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:51

AbreathofFrenchair · 28/05/2023 08:45

But it obviously bothered you enough to come here ask the question and then still insist you did nothing wrong, despite it being pointed out multiple times that whilst what you did was fine, you really should have overtaken correctly and that had their been an accident, you would have been at fault.

What was hoping to get from this thread? An echo chamber that you did nothing wrong? You don't seem to be prepared to accept that you should overtake as opposed to undertake or accept that if there was an accident you would have been at fault.

Show quote history

It’s been worthwhile because some people have shared the info given directly on speed awareness courses. That’s really useful and was what I was looking for- if anyone had direct knowledge

OP posts:
ProfYaffle · 28/05/2023 08:48

AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:32

@ProfYaffle it says ‘May be…’ not ‘will be’. Which is exactly what I’m saying. It may well be careless driving. It’s not the definition of careless driving. Done safely there’s nothing there saying it a guaranteed offence regardless is there? It’s a case by case consideration

My guess would be it's one of those circumstances where if something bad had happened (eg, middle lane guy doesn't see you in his blind spot and pulls over) you could potentially be found liable. I interpret it as a grey area that's best avoided. I've done similar to you but generally try not to.

AbreathofFrenchair · 28/05/2023 08:47

HeiXiong · 28/05/2023 08:36

But OP didn’t move to undertake. She stayed in her lane which was moving faster.

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She didnt, she actually slowed down in the left hand lane to match the speed of the middle lane driver.

ProfYaffle · 28/05/2023 08:45

HeiXiong · 28/05/2023 08:36

But OP didn’t move to undertake. She stayed in her lane which was moving faster.

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The police specifically quote the example of undertaking a middle lane hogger as being careless driving.

AbreathofFrenchair · 28/05/2023 08:45

AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:25

You have quite the imagination.
No it was pretty good natured, Aibu isn’t real life and my dad wouldn’t repeat himself over and over in faux outrage and silly phrases of faux shock. We had a brief and normal adult conversation. We didn’t reenact Aibu funnily enough.
We left it as we look it up.

Show quote history

But it obviously bothered you enough to come here ask the question and then still insist you did nothing wrong, despite it being pointed out multiple times that whilst what you did was fine, you really should have overtaken correctly and that had their been an accident, you would have been at fault.

What was hoping to get from this thread? An echo chamber that you did nothing wrong? You don't seem to be prepared to accept that you should overtake as opposed to undertake or accept that if there was an accident you would have been at fault.

User1529865 · 28/05/2023 08:39

BeethovenNinth · 28/05/2023 08:36

I always thought undertaking was illegal.

the worry is the middle lane hogger moves in without checking.

I have done what you did but try not to.

But you have to check as all the HGV use that lane.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:38

Even the left had move scenario. I accounted for it and watched them well. I had an empty hard shoulder. I simply would have gone left if had to. I’m sure many of us at some point in our motorway driving have had to evasively avoid a person changing lanes without looking. The classic person who swerves into the middle lane without indicating, just as you’ve been indicating there to overtake. Or the lorry driver who can’t see you. I don’t want to have to do it, but despite having a bright red car I’ve had to do a few times. Same journey saw a van drifting lanes!

OP posts:
Creamyoda · 28/05/2023 08:37

It explains alot about driving standards if people think its safer and the right thing to slow down to under 50mph on a motorway to match the speed of a middle lane hog rather than continuing on in your lane.

BeethovenNinth · 28/05/2023 08:36

I always thought undertaking was illegal.

the worry is the middle lane hogger moves in without checking.

I have done what you did but try not to.

HeiXiong · 28/05/2023 08:36

ProfYaffle · 28/05/2023 08:29

Screenshot from the Askthepolice link someone put up earlier. The police consider it careless driving.

But OP didn’t move to undertake. She stayed in her lane which was moving faster.

HeiXiong · 28/05/2023 08:34

AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:32

@ProfYaffle it says ‘May be…’ not ‘will be’. Which is exactly what I’m saying. It may well be careless driving. It’s not the definition of careless driving. Done safely there’s nothing there saying it a guaranteed offence regardless is there? It’s a case by case consideration

Exactly OP not an offence in an of itself.

however middle lane hogging is.

HeiXiong · 28/05/2023 08:33

Divorcedalongtime · 27/05/2023 16:51

Safe yes, illegal also yes. Many of us would have chosen to do what you did but your dad is still right

It’s not illegal.

the only charges that could be relevant are driving without due care and attention or dangerous driving.

both are vanishingly unlikely

it is however an offence to hog the middle lane and thus for dangerous manoeuvres in other drivers. The person who would have been charged in this situation is the middle lane hogger

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:32

@ProfYaffle it says ‘May be…’ not ‘will be’. Which is exactly what I’m saying. It may well be careless driving. It’s not the definition of careless driving. Done safely there’s nothing there saying it a guaranteed offence regardless is there? It’s a case by case consideration

OP posts:
Cantthinkofaname2203 · 28/05/2023 08:30

red78hot · 28/05/2023 08:23

It IS illegal to undertake, rule 167 highway code, only if absolutely necessary ie where ALL traffic has slowed to a,similar speed( roadworks/ jams etc).
The main person in the wrong here is the middle lane hogger, unfortunately there are many of these these days.

No it isn’t.

the Highway Code is a code, not a legal guide.

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:30

It’s quite noticeable- those in sensible tones who cite a source, eg ‘on my speed awareness course they said…’ seem to believe it’s ok.

Those who read half the Highway Code rule, or confuse a rule with an offence are outraged. People get very very entrenched in beliefs.

Considering it’s nearly 50/50 on the vote is pleasantly surprising. I reckon 80% of people on here change lanes 500 yards before lane merge due to roadworks rather than zipper merge. 25% on aibu are out to argue with anything, even the sky looking blue.

OP posts:
ProfYaffle · 28/05/2023 08:29

Screenshot from the Askthepolice link someone put up earlier. The police consider it careless driving.

To think this driving manoeuvre was both safe and legal?
GiveupHQ · 28/05/2023 08:27

And it was you who used the word “arguing”

Arguing with my dad. Rather than “chatting”!

GiveupHQ · 28/05/2023 08:26

AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:25

You have quite the imagination.
No it was pretty good natured, Aibu isn’t real life and my dad wouldn’t repeat himself over and over in faux outrage and silly phrases of faux shock. We had a brief and normal adult conversation. We didn’t reenact Aibu funnily enough.
We left it as we look it up.

Show quote history

Dozens of long posts on this thread would indicate otherwise! 😂

GiveupHQ · 28/05/2023 08:25

User1529865 · 28/05/2023 07:37

It says should not must though.

No one has said what vehicles that are not allowed in the 3rd lane should do, the ones that can't overtake.

It’s a “Rule” though

Original poster
AmazonAmazine · 28/05/2023 08:25

GiveupHQ · 28/05/2023 05:35

Are you and your dad on speaking terms OP since yesterday?

On the basis of this thread, I’m guessing in real life you’re like a dog with a bone and won’t let your poor dad rest until he’s said that he’s wrong and you’re right!

You have quite the imagination.
No it was pretty good natured, Aibu isn’t real life and my dad wouldn’t repeat himself over and over in faux outrage and silly phrases of faux shock. We had a brief and normal adult conversation. We didn’t reenact Aibu funnily enough.
We left it as we look it up.

OP posts:
red78hot · 28/05/2023 08:23

It IS illegal to undertake, rule 167 highway code, only if absolutely necessary ie where ALL traffic has slowed to a,similar speed( roadworks/ jams etc).
The main person in the wrong here is the middle lane hogger, unfortunately there are many of these these days.

LakieLady · 28/05/2023 08:20

I wouldn't have done it, but I understand your frustration, OP.

Anyone doing 50 in the middle lane for no good reason (eg, overtaking) is probably an idiot and I therefore wouldn't trust them not to move into the inside lane without having a proper look.

I'd have got in behind them and waited for a gap in the outside lane to overtake.

Foxgate · 28/05/2023 08:19

Its not undertaking unless you pull in front of it once you’ve passed. Perfectly fine and I would do the same.