To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

@Solonge · Today 20:06
wow....so Oxbridge uni's take the vast majority of their students from private schools

No, they do not.

https://www.economist.com/britain/2023/03/11/state-school-admissions-are-rising-at-oxford-and-cambridge

In 2022 the proportion of places offered to state-school students was 68% at Oxford; 72.5% at Cambridge.

Great post.

Underwater basket weaving sounds pretty difficult to be fair. I'd be impressed with that.🧑🏽‍🎓

I went to Oxbridge though, and I never came out with any great social networks at all, I had individual nice friends I've kept but it hasn't done me any favours. That type of social capital is not acquired from eating in the same hall as wealthy or well-connected people if you are not one of them.

Going to Cambridge, just so you can say “I went to Cambridge”, is not the right reason to go to Cambridge.

😂👌

I think for some jobs it makes sense, and for others it's very odd. There are lots of great unis with good career-oriented jobs and links with industry but there's a heck of a lot with really much lower academic standards, and getting a first there won't be the same. I don't care about it though, as in feel aggrieved, just think it's an odd policy. Blinding sex and age and name makes much more sense. Everything else I would want to know where it was from as that's a form of legitimacy for those qualifications.

I recruit PhDs and research fellows occasionally, and I'm not as influenced by the UG university as you might think. What I am looking for is usually that either the UG or Masters or something is done somewhere solid and academic, second I'm looking for consistency, so is this student or applicant getting consistently high grades across multiple courses and levels (e.g. do they get a First and a Distinction from two different places), and finally I'm looking for high awareness of what it takes to succeed, do they take feedback, do they have an excellent proposal. Ideally, if it's a PhD it's great to work with them beforehand on the proposal so that you get a sense of if they have the right skills and aptitude.

I'm not snobby about uni, but I think it's part of an overall picture, it seems odd to take it out as if there genuinely was some overall standard measurement across 150 odd institutions, but that's on them I guess, and it will help other inequalities. We have a table to make equivalents for international students as it's really hard to read their marks and know what percentile of achievement they are in, for example.

I don't think you should worry about it. The skills you get out of a degree from Cambridge, the social networks, the fab time you will have etc are its real value. When hiring I've come across absolutely unsuitable candidates from Oxford/Cambridge and excellent candidates from other universities. I don't think also for most jobs what you learnt at uni matters, it's about your transferable skills. People that are really committed to the university experience, to self study, to testing themselves in different ways, will always interview better for a job than those who just dossed about at uni. Cambridge should push your son to be in tje former category.

Probably there are some employers who want a particular type of person so will pick e.g. oxbridge/durham

And others recruiting for particular skills so willknow which universities offer good courses in one particular subject area.

Beyond that I expect it's down to snobbery and prejudice to an extent, with traditional subjects from redbrick universites more highly valued.

Surely anyone would want to go to the "best" place for their subject though? How frustrating if you are bright and hard working but end up somewhere that all the other students are struggling with the basics and the standards are poor and everyone gets good grade regardless.. let's face it you can get drunk and party even at oxbridge so that aspect is irrelevant. I don't see why anyone would choose Manchester Met over Cambridge for the enjoyment of the university experience.

My boss went to the University of Hertfordshire. I went to Cambridge. She’s younger (and far more effective) than me.

OP, I recruited for the Civil Service Fast Stream for years, which is institution blind. As a PP has just said, quite often it’s obvious when a candidate is Oxbridge from the experience they put forward in the competency application, but I usually found the highest scoring people were able to clearly articulate how a Saturday job at Tesco had developed their skills, rather than someone who had been on the Union Society Committee.

I now recruit at a Big Four. There are some very out of date ideas on here about how we go about that. We have a presence at a lot of universities, and are putting a lot of effort into outreach. Certainly Manchester Met has been one of them recently! We’ve also started up a recruitment stream straight from A levels.

Even before blind recruitment I paid a lot more attention to how well a candidate managed to explain their skills and aptitude than either their university or degree class. Quite often someone’s university choice is about more than their ability. Increasingly people are choosing to study near home for financial reasons. They may be studying part time or have caring responsibilities. They may have gone to a school where aspirations for leavers were low and flourished at university.

Hopefully your son will have a fantastic time at university, and be well equipped to apply for a job at the end on his own merits.

What would you rather have let's ask the audience. A 2.1 from Cambridge or a 1st from Bristol?

Thats my point. Easy courses = Easy firsts. You can be mediocre and get a first from a mediocre Uni. No greatness necessary.

With respect, I don’t think you know what an ‘unconditional offer’ is. It isn’t ‘unconditional’ if he already has the grades (which are genuinely fantastic). They were the condition, and he has met them.

‘Unconditional offers’ are so rare as to be virtual urban legends (I know of only one in real life) and mean that the admissions tutors were so impressed by the candidate that they either gave a genuinely unconditional offer with no grade requirements, or an offer so low (usually two Es) as to be de facto unconditional.

Oh, ok then. You’ve fully convinced me with your compelling argument that is nothing like primary school level debate of “no it’s not”

Because 'Underwater Basket Weaving' was right up there? 😂

I can not believe that you’re getting worked up over what sounds like a very privileged individual perhaps losing a tiny iota of privilege.

You also need to think about people and issues beyond your tiny bubble- why do you think some companies are doing it? Could it possibly, shock horror, be because those universities may not actually always produce the best employees? And it’s better to focus on the bigger picture rather than just seeing “oxbridge” and offering them the job on the spot, because you know they produce good fellows who can use the correct fork?

HR at my employer won’t even let us see CVS for people we are interviewing. Morons!

Is this a joke? The point of going to a good university like Oxford is the fantastic education that your child will receive. Part of that education will prepare them for the world of work.

If he's just interested in the career aspect then a good university will be well placed to provide opportunities and advice.

The blind hiring is to stop recruiters being dazzled by the university and actually focus on the candidate and how their experience and character aligns with the job description.

The TEF does not measure teaching quality - no-one steps inside a lecture theatre, seminar room or lab once in making that award.

Civil Service Fast Stream recruits blind, last year majority were still Oxbridge and Durham

Oh, ok then. You’ve fully convinced me with your compelling argument that is nothing like primary school level debate of “no it’s not”

Well if he can't stand out in an interview after going to one of the top unis in the country then maybe he's not the best person for the job 🤷‍♀️
I'm increasingly coming round to this opinion too.

know it’s a minority opinion, but YANBU. The top Unis have the hardest courses and so a 2:1 from one is equivalent to a 1st from a garden variety Uni.

Is it ? Really?

" a garden variety"😁

Seriously, great students make the most of whatever course they are on.

It is not transphobic to know that men cannot turn into women. Neither is it tragic or repulsive.

Did you go to university yourself? Did it not teach you critical thinking skills?

Well, we're from a very ordinary MC family with no connections whatsoever so my brother got into Cambridge completely without family support. In fact, he did his own application and no one prepped him for the interview. He's just very clever in STEM subjects and his hobby growing up (from the age of about 9) was speed-cubing (solving the Rubiks cube in under 1 minute and then he moved on yo cubes of all sizes). So I don't think Cambridge cared very much about his parentage when they accepted him.

Well if he can't stand out in an interview after going to one of the top unis in the country then maybe he's not the best person for the job 🤷‍♀️