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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

788 replies

Newname576 · 17/05/2023 19:31

DS has overcome so many challenges and has an unconditional offer from Cambridge after achieving 4 A star last year. He has worked so hard and we are so proud of him! But I was upset to learn that so many companies are recruiting “university blind”now - what the hell is the point of going to a top Uni if no one will know about it! My younger child says she will apply to Manchester Met and have a ball even though she too is predicted stellar grades as there is no point going to a top Uni

AIBU to be sad that companies are recruiting blind?

OP posts:
Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:46

@DysmalRadius and no need for your last para. I do not doubt my son at all. We build him up not knock him down - though thanks for the noddy parenting. He will rise to the top. My post was about blind recruitment and the downsides of it which I feel are real

OP posts:
MakesMeFeelSad · 18/05/2023 02:44

Bloody hell, do you not trust that he'll do well in interviews or something?

He's not even at uni yet, doesn't matter how smart they are, not all of them can hack it. Getting angry about interviews is a bit premature

Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:41

@DysmalRadius accepted but there have also been a helluva hot of shocking, prejudiced and uninformed posts on this thread too. All firsts are not equal for one!

OP posts:
DysmalRadius · 18/05/2023 02:39

Lots of experienced and knowledgeable posters have offered reassurance, explained the potential benefits and described the ways in which your son's degree will still benefit him over other candidates but you are still giving a lot of weight to the words written on a CV as though this is all an employer will look at when recruiting.

Have faith in your son's abilities rather than the reputation of the University he is going to, and try not to give him the idea that he isn't employable enough without the full details of his degree.

Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:37

Hammerhouseofhorrors · 18/05/2023 02:25

This says it all
You are calling higher educational establishments
Crap
I do hope there are no MN on here getting upset by your nasty comments.

Show quote history

You are living in an alternative reality with a chip on your shoulder. We are a humble, underprivileged family who are just so proud of DS and his Cambridge place with A stars. We don’t think his achievements are remotely comparable with someone who went to low ranking uni with BBC and got a first. Sorry not sorry,

OP posts:
Hammerhouseofhorrors · 18/05/2023 02:25

Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:07

For sure @Hammerhouseofhorrors. My under-privileged DS (with A stars) will be reading history at Cambridge though. His 2.1 will be judged equally (under blind recruitment) to a student at crap Uni admitted with CCD. It is crazy and I just don’t get it

This says it all
You are calling higher educational establishments
Crap
I do hope there are no MN on here getting upset by your nasty comments.

Hammerhouseofhorrors · 18/05/2023 02:22

Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:07

For sure @Hammerhouseofhorrors. My under-privileged DS (with A stars) will be reading history at Cambridge though. His 2.1 will be judged equally (under blind recruitment) to a student at crap Uni admitted with CCD. It is crazy and I just don’t get it

Why have you posted OP, if you are not prepared to listen.
You have insulted a lot of posters on here for being prejudiced and unknowledgeable! Why, because they don’t agree with you.
Isn't this a debate
Isn’t this what education is all about…learning..discussing and appreciating other people point of view
You have no idea of posters backgrounds or indeed whether they are speaking from experience.

Yet you have resorted to putting MNs down with your offhand previous post when MNs have come on here and given their time to advice.

Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:14

@poetryandwine thank you for your empathy in last post. I wish I had never started this thread as people have jumped to conclusions. My Ds has had horrific secondary school experience - bullied, late diagnosis with ASD, requires improvement school with teachers leaving every few months. We are free school meals and BAME. Not posh or private school - DS was scared about that but Cambridge far better than Durham or Exeter (his other choices)

OP posts:
Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 02:07

For sure @Hammerhouseofhorrors. My under-privileged DS (with A stars) will be reading history at Cambridge though. His 2.1 will be judged equally (under blind recruitment) to a student at crap Uni admitted with CCD. It is crazy and I just don’t get it

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 18/05/2023 02:05

PS OP, I thought you sounded fiercely protective of your DS. A different thing entirely.

poetryandwine · 18/05/2023 02:03

No, OP. I admire your DS hugely. I never thought you or he sounded privileged.

I am a Russell Group STEM academic and I agree that degree standards vary hugely. Much more than I would wish.

My uni is in the tier just below COWI (Cambridge, Oxford, Warwick, Imperial) in many STEM disciplines and our students get great jobs. It is a combination of our academic reputation and the fact that we put effort into our students’ pre-professional development.

I don’t know what pre-professional opportunities Cambridge offer. I am sure there are some and I would urge your DS to look for them. Even volunteering is a good start.

I was also careful to say that engaging with the tutorial system is the special opportunity of Oxbridge. You get out what you put in, although it may be stressful at first. If your DS engages academically and pre-professionally - I use that word realising that he could be aiming for PG studies - he has great chances of coming out on top. His Cambridge training will show, whether he does blind applications or not.

Hammerhouseofhorrors · 18/05/2023 01:58

Newname576 · 18/05/2023 01:42

@Hammerhouseofhorrors yes indeed on all other grounds other than university. A 2.1 from Oxbridge/Durham etc so far more rigorous than a 2.1 from Lincoln (for example). It is absurd that they are treated equally

If u see a previous post of mine.You will see we don’t take Oxbridge if we are looking for design based Architects as neither school has a good reputation for design.

the design abilities exhibited ( of 1st and 2:1 students) within the last 10/15 years of applicants are far inferior to those from other Universities who are clearly teaching the subject with much more success.
We see this first hand.

Architecture is not unique in this finding, as i believe others on here have also noted

Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 01:46

Seems I should have posted this in a thread called higher education - will do that from now on. More knowledgeable arguments there rather than gut instinct and prejudice.

OP posts:
Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 01:42

@Hammerhouseofhorrors yes indeed on all other grounds other than university. A 2.1 from Oxbridge/Durham etc so far more rigorous than a 2.1 from Lincoln (for example). It is absurd that they are treated equally

OP posts:
Hammerhouseofhorrors · 18/05/2023 01:37

The entire reason behind blind applications is to

  • chose the best person from the role
  • avoid all forms of discrimination
Sex, age, colour, ethnicity, background, education…everything!

Surely every method to achieve this should be applauded.

Original poster
Newname576 · 18/05/2023 01:27

How am I missing the point, exactly? See my post about Wolverhampton DC first being treated same as Cambridge DC first. No equivalence and bonkers. So annoyed that so many on this thread think that I and my DS - black, crap state school, free meals, disabled - are seeking to entrench privilege coz he got a Cambridge place. Mumsnet honks

OP posts:
poetryandwine · 18/05/2023 01:21

OP and others are still missing the point.

The qualities that earn you a First or a 2.1 from Oxbridge should, if you’ve kept your wits about you and paid some attention to personal and pre-professional development at uni, give you a big advantage when preparing applications and interviewing. To a lesser extent any more rigorous degree programme will provide this when compared to a less rigorous programme, but nothing compares to the preparation provided by engaging with the Oxbridge tutorial system for three or four years.

SquaresandStarlings · 18/05/2023 00:56

But surely you can see the Wolverhampton student might be a whizz at leadership and your Cambridge DS might lack common sense.
*
The academics of a degree only help you to the interview room - you have to show you are a lot more than a degree to get the job*

This!!

Hawkins0001 · 18/05/2023 00:37

Verbena17 · 18/05/2023 00:26

If you’re only talking about the degree specifics then maybe, but she’s talking about getting a job based on that degree and others have pointed out, a 1st from oxbridge doesn’t guarantee you a job above a non-Russell group degree.

Show quote history

In that case fair points, my apologies I missed the extra info.

ejbaxa · 18/05/2023 00:28

Lcb123 · 17/05/2023 19:38

totally disagree, this is progressive. Oxbridge are so elitist and do little to further diversity. Very surprised you are surprised about this. jobs that don’t require a degree should not put it on the requirements anyway.

They actually do quite a lot to further diversity and broaden access. They make resources available free online so you don't need any support to access it. If you don't have certain required stuff, they will actually buy it for you and give it to you to keep - even if you don't get in. Many universities run summer programs for Y12 students which you cannot access unless you fit into the diversity/access criteria.

So here's an example of some criteria for one at Cambridge (not open to those in fee paying schools at all): would be in the first generation of your family to attend university, have been in receipt of Free School Meals whilst at secondary school, attend a school or college with a below-average A-level or Higher point score and/or a low rate of progression to higher education, live in a neighbourhood with a low rate of progression to higher education and/or a high level of socio-economic deprivation, have been looked after or in care. If you are (or have been) looked after, accommodated or in care, you only need to meet the age, school and academic requirements. The people in the photo are a rainbow of races, although that isn't mentioned explicitly on this one (on many it is mentioned)
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Verbena17 · 18/05/2023 00:26

Hawkins0001 · 18/05/2023 00:20

Actually new is correct.
All degrees are not equal, especially when you consider and compare eg the tutorial system at Oxford or the similar system at Cambridge vs other universities etc,

Show quote history

If you’re only talking about the degree specifics then maybe, but she’s talking about getting a job based on that degree and others have pointed out, a 1st from oxbridge doesn’t guarantee you a job above a non-Russell group degree.

Verbena17 · 18/05/2023 00:22

Newname576 · 17/05/2023 23:44

Wolverhampton require CCC for my son’s degree (and probably take lower in clearing). Cambridge require AAA. A 1st from Wolverhampton is not the same calibre as a 1st from Cambridge. I am therefore disappointed that a Cambridge graduate will be regarded as the same as the Wolverhampton graduate under institution blind recruitment. Makes no sense to me at all.

Show quote history

But surely you can see the Wolverhampton student might be a whizz at leadership and your Cambridge DS might lack common sense.

The academics of a degree only help you to the interview room - you have to show you are a lot more than a degree to get the job.

Hammerhouseofhorrors · 18/05/2023 00:20

eggsbenedict23 · 17/05/2023 23:41

Surely the boat race shows dedication and resilience?

Or maybe it shows the applicant is sneaky / devious. After all they have been told not to disclose their Uni.
If you want someone with those attributes then they’ve passed the test.

Hawkins0001 · 18/05/2023 00:20

Verbena17 · 18/05/2023 00:15

You’re being a total snob!
I’m shocked.

You do know that a degree simply means they can show they can study at that level? When you’re being treated in A & E, do you ask the consultant where they got their degree from whilst you’re bleeding out?

If this is the main thing that’s bothering you, you don’t have enough to worry about.

Show quote history

Actually new is correct.
All degrees are not equal, especially when you consider and compare eg the tutorial system at Oxford or the similar system at Cambridge vs other universities etc,

Verbena17 · 18/05/2023 00:15

Newname576 · 17/05/2023 19:39

But all degrees aren’t equal @NeverDropYourMooncup - someone who gets a 1st from Cambridge has covered a lot more than the equivalent degree from uni of Hertfordshire!

You’re being a total snob!
I’m shocked.

You do know that a degree simply means they can show they can study at that level? When you’re being treated in A & E, do you ask the consultant where they got their degree from whilst you’re bleeding out?

If this is the main thing that’s bothering you, you don’t have enough to worry about.