To be upset about ‘university blind’ recruitment

You need to be VERY careful triggering a debate on racism without understanding what the word means. (And without understanding what the word you mislabelled racist means either).

Qualifications are used as a proxy for "Merit", in the early stages of a career, because it would be unfair to expect a 20 year old graduate to have gained much industry experience in many cases. Not all universities are equally rigorous. They have varying teaching/assessment methods and standards. My ex's Dad lectured at Roehampton. He was quite open about the standards there not being as high as Oxford (where he had studied).

To be fair though, whether you study Shakespeare or quantum mechanic is irrelevant to the average graduate job. I do think the fact that oxbridge students have to argue their case in small tutorial groups is key. These students will probably do well at interview as this type of group dynamic won’t phase them. Whether that actually makes them better employees is debatable though. If they will regularly be in these situations yes, if they need to sit in a back office doing tax computations not so much.

Except it isn't. Yes I learned about wave-particle duality and the photoelectric effect at A-Level, but I didn't learn about the time dependent Schroedinger equation, density functional theory or elements of quantum symmetry until I was an undergraduate and beyond.

The point is that one can study the same area at different depths and complexities at different stages of your education.

So while A level grades at 17 or 18 tell you a little about those DCs entering university, they tell you precious little about the student exiting university 3 or 4 years later.

Exactly.

God alive.

If the OP was Do all University courses demand the same rigour? Or Are some University courses harder than others?

We'd all know the answer.

But since it's about what happens after that university course.ie will graduates be most suitable for jobs because of where they went to Uni etc it's much more complex.

And it turns out some employers don't think the university is particularly relevant.

That's up to them surely?They know their criteria and stand or fall by it.

It's pointless to be upset by it. And missing the point of the education.

But all degrees aren’t equal @NeverDropYourMooncup - someone who gets a 1st from Cambridge has covered a lot more than the equivalent degree from uni of Hertfordshire!
How could you possibly know that ! Can you link to your source and course details

Don't worry they will get lots of other privileges in life

I think it's good.

I used to work in the Civil Service and pretty much everyone in my dept was Oxbridge (not me, though).

They were quite open about how they recruited their own. Blind recruitment would put a stop to this.

DH just come back from a run. He honks. Is that racist @FarmGirl78 ?

@FarmGirl78 so we can’t use the word ‘honks’ at all now? We have to say ‘stinks’ instead? That is your argument? Seriously!

I just looked it up. Are you American@FarmGirl78?

I don't think that this expression is known or used in the UK at all, so don't very much that OP had any idea she was using a phrase that could be construed as ambiguous.

Also, the racist slur against white people that you are referring to is not "honk" or "honks" though. It's a similar but different word.

I didn't misread it. I read it exactly as its typed.

If the OP didn't mean it to be racist, then so be it, but I think she needs to be VERY careful in using language which has racist undertones and could be interpreted as racist. The old "but it wasn't meant in a racist way" unfortunately isn't sufficient these days in multicultural society, regardless of race.

@FarmGirl78 oh come on here - have the good grace to admit you completely misread OP’s comment ‘Mumsnet honks’. You need to retract your slur btw rather than justify it but you don’t seem like the kind of person who will……

Yes why would you, given that you confused honks for honky. It doesn’t sound like you are that familiar.

You haven’t answered my question above.

Entry grades aren’t necessarily a measure of the quality of the degree. This is misunderstood by a lot of people.

I've said this many times on various threads in Education @Elastom and it's absolutely right. A student with 3 x Cs is starting from a lower point than a student with 3 x As, but if they get top-class teaching at whichever university they go to (and top-class teaching can be found anywhere) and work hard, who's to say that they can't catch up over the course of their degree?

University-style teaching and learning are quite different from that you find at school, and often the exams are very different too. So while A level grades at 17 or 18 tell you a little about those DCs entering university, they tell you precious little about the student exiting university 3 or 4 years later.

For evidence of this, it's worth noting that if you apply for a Masters course, the majority of universities do not ask for A level grades. That's because they deem them irrelevant to a student's suitability for post-graduate study.

What about honky tonk, as in women/piano, is that OK?

Admittedly I don't hang out with racists so not down with their chat, but I had no idea "honks" was a racist term. Which race is it aimed at?

I do know BOTH meanings of honks, and one of them is very racist. If she's using racist language in an ambiguous way then ohhhhhh that alright then I suppose 🙄. She could have chosen to say the much more widely used typical phrase "stinks", but instead chose to use a racist term? I don't like anyone using racist language regardless of whether it's meant intentionally. Can you imagine if it was the other way round?

"honks" isn't "urban slang" it's just a British English synonym for "smells bad/stinks".

It's been in use for decades.

Why on earth would I be familiar with urban slang?

He is with the MoJ

A degree is generally a gateway to employment and mosylt irrelevant. Your son is only disadvantaged if he is crap at the role he is applying for. Degrees and the university they are from mean very little in the workplace.

May I ask what he has been doing with the CS?

My ds is at Lancashire so not even a rg uni 😱 I'm fairly sure that he will do well in interviews though as at 20 he has also been working for the CS since he was 18 I'm assuming some experience in the world of work will be seen as a positive

I see what you’re saying but I just think your responses have been slightly hurtful. My daughter will be going to Manchester Met in September because she got a great feel for the city and Manchester Uni didn’t do her course. She is not a straight A* student (more ABB).

I for one am pleased that if she goes for a job she won’t be treated differently by the university she has chosen.

when I recruit I couldn’t care less about what Uni someone has been to, I am more interested in their work experience/volunteering/extra curricular experience from their CV as well as a GCSE in maths and English (just to ensure they have at least that standard).

All of the hiring I do then Obvs is based on interview and personality also makes up a huge part of whether they will fit in.

im not sure what job your son would think of doing with a history degree but I’m sure the experience he gets and the opportunities he will par-take in at Cambridge to add to his cv may well out weight the opportunities that say my daughter at Manchester Met may be presented with.