To want my son to go to a higher achieving Uni?

As a Belgian, I don´t know anything about the ranking of British universities, but even I have heard of Aberystwyth university.

Also.. I have had many STEM RG graduates who cannot logic to save their lives. 'Badly regarded' university the opposite.
But then again, it may be because computing has many people like my DP who are shit at exams but great practically. If I was hiring for a very theoretical computer science role then maybe it would be the other way around. But we wouldn't be hiring people without a relevant degree in that case.

My last post was to @eggsbenedict23.

In law, a First is probably still going to make a big difference to your chances of getting a pupillage in a barrister's chambers.

I have no idea how other City professions (finance, accounting, insurance) view them.

It is very, very dependent on the role!
The big4 can be institution blind because graduates have to pass very difficult professional exams. They will weed themselves out by failing, but so far the failure rate of their graduates is still low.
Equally for some STEM roles the quality of equipment and lab experience of a research university is very important.

Even for things like investment banking - it needs some intelligence yes but it's essentially a sales role. The ability to BS, and work long pressured hours without keeling over is more important.

'Better' universities tend to self-select for the latter because you have the driven. high achievers but that is not because of the university. It's the cohort.

I could go on but you get the gist....

In my field we wouldn't use First vs 2:1 as a tie breaking factor between two otherwise similar candidates. We don't usually take people with less than a 2:1 though.

No.

I do notice though that the 'culture' of universities differs as well.
Again, not using RG as a metric but some universities, especially those with a lot of international students from a 'normal' background (not super rich mummy buys a flat) have a very self-motivated atmosphere. Students organising events in partnership with employers, for example. Rather than just 'attending' them. Making their mark.

By contrast, others are more chilled. And think that the above is hothousing.

I don't think either is bad, but it depends on what you are like. For me, coming from a not 'MC' background (international scholarship student) I really benefitted from all the pushiness. I didn't know that you could just approach people, didn't know how to forge my own path. Didn't know the importance of doing stuff for my CV if the people around me hadn't talked about it all the time!

If I had gone to a more chill university I would probably have been kicked out of the country as the visa was very strict and I needed a job before graduating.

I do a lot of outreach work and I find that those from less 'well-regarded' universities tend to have a lot of this problem. They have 'some' PT jobs and maybe a uni sport/club. But they think that it's enough to stand out. The ones I interview from 'less well regarded' unis with 'generic' degrees always tend to be from a more MC background from the way they speak , and the activities they have done.

Again, note my careful use of the word 'well-regarded' as opposed to 'RG'!

I have a genuine question. Do recruitment care about the 1st Vs 2.1?

YANBU to want to best for your child. Particularly if you’re going to be footing some of the cost.

You can only offer guidance. He’s young and no doubt doesn’t consider the kudos from a higher ranked uni.

My friend’s son was woefully underprepared for the real world post graduation. I ended up coaching him and providing very common sense life tips that he somehow didn’t know himself 🤦🏼‍♀️

Bristol, Durham etc are good places to choose and many, many students are very happy there.

Aberyswth is different though. Tiny. About as isolated as you can be in the UK. Copyright library. Very very beautiful. It has always seemed quite magical to me, and not a bad place to test out adulthood as a student.

Institution blind recruitment’s days are numbered. If degrees were equal it would be fine but they’re not. There is no standardisation. So a first from university A is not the same as a first from university B. We are already seeing issues emerge in our firm with recruits who are just not up to scratch intellectually.

That is unlikely to happen because of institution- blind applications, however if it did then I can guarantee it would spark a conversation about sailing, or coasteering, or dog walks along the beach, or environmental issues, or shipping- the sea is a good thing to be interested in!

@SmartHome I'm a partner in a City law firm! We've been institution-blind for about 3 years.

That’s such a predictably 18 year old reason for choosing a uni.

Interviewer: So why did you pick Aber?
DS: The sea!

Don't waste your breath. Middle aged mothers on MN who are lawyers or bankers refuse to believe that graduate recruitment is institution-blind now, even in the hallowed city, because it doesn't fit with their world view. They can't accept that things have changed from when they went to university 30 years ago. You and I know that it has changed though so, unless perhaps we are talking about the last profession to modernise (law), then really the whole RG prestigious unis is more about parental bragging rights these days than actual career prospects.

Although, of course, there will be a difference between aptitude and application that probably correlates somewhat with academic achievement.

Before I read the update I was going to say that it's understandable if it's for languages. I say this with my French degree from Durham!

It's his life and his choice.

Better for him to go to the university of his choice, have a good experience and complete his degree with high marks rather than go to the wrong university, struggle with his course/the environment and end up with a lower degree...

''@ladykale
ilovesooty · Today 14:09
It's his decision, not yours.
This is regular but terrible advice often on MN.
Young people rarely understand the broader significance of their uni choice on life and career prospects, or choose uni based on which they'll party at more.
Given the amount of debt they'll get into by going, it's helpful to guide young people to go to the best uni they possibly can.''

It is patronising in the extreme to suggest that someone cannot possibly make their own decision about their education or that all that young people care about is partying.

In far the best way to derail someone's education and career is to try to force them to do something they might not have any interest/aptitude in and to risk ending up in the wrong environment.

You can give your advices/views but ultimately you need to respect their decision. Or you teaching your kids that they have no control over their lives and that they are too stupid to make the right choices, which is incredibly harmful.

It's a mix.
The Big4 accounting firms (yes, not the 'City' but major employers) are CV blind. So are some Magic Circle law firms and major financial institutions. Governmental bodies like the FCA and BoE are not, but my last information on this was 3 years ago.

My own employer (one of the above) gives us full CV's. I know they do that for all programs across the board, not just mine (tech).

But... in financial services for example a lot of smaller employers like boutique investment banks, PE firms etc very much care about 'pedigree'. Just because you 'can' get a job from a less well known university doesn't mean that it's a good reason to close yourself off the other options, if you have the capability to do so.

It might be worth investigating the opportunities to transfer to a different uni if he does not like his first choice. He could then, potentially, pick one of the RG unis and if he's not happy then he can move and has not lost that time/cost?

I have nothing agains Aberystwyth, I'm just aware that some job sectors are more picky about universities. If those are the areas he wants to work then that should be more of a factor.

Good luck.

I'm not going to use 'RG' as a term because I find it silly. There are the 'brand names' like Oxford, Imperial, LSE and ones like Nottingham which I don't think is much different from other well regarded 'non-RG' like Bath and Lancaster.

However...
No 'university course' gives that. It's all done by the career center. Of course, many people graduate without even realising that it exists, or bothering to even visit but the main draw (caveat, sector dependent obviously!) is that the better universities have very good recruitment and links to a variety of employers. Not just with career fairs, student job boards etc but the alumni network. This is particularly noticeable for high-value, niche employers which hire for generic degrees and tend to concentrate their on-campus recruitment activity due to a lack of resources.

I know there will be PP coming on here to say that 'even post-99' or whatever names you call them have good career support but that's not true. Having been involved a lot with graduates the 'better' university graduates are noticeably more prepared for the milk round, dare I say even... 'drilled'?

However all of that is easily available online, and with major employers there are scores of forum posts, resources etc you can get for free. The only part you can't replicate is practice with someone knowledgeable.

How up to date is your knowledge? Because I am involved in grad recruitment in the City right now and we do not reveal the identity of grad scheme applicants' universities to those interviewing them and making the decisions. Degree class only. They are not allowed to ask.

I mean, tens of thousands of students go go to uni every year. I imagine there are threads about parents not being sure about their children's choice most years, just like there's always threads on appeals for school places etc.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4769556-to-want-ds-to-go-to-the-best-university?page=1

Found it.

Yes the first bit is exactly my point.
Whereas in one of the other subjects you can have modules where a large proportion of the grade is made up of in-class work and pop quizzes which don't really differ from the textbook.

PP have mentioned that Aber is a 'marmite' place which also makes sense r.e. lower requirements.

I remember seeing a thread just like this a few months ago.....