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The WHO want your four year old to be taught about masturbation and gender identity

316 replies

GrabbyGabby · 14/05/2023 10:47

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/13/outrage-over-who-advice-on-sexuality-for-infants/

This is where queer theory gets you. Women have been sounding the alarm on the consequences of the promotion of queer theory in all realms of life. This is what it looks like when applies to sex ed for very young children.

So, before you dismiss people like me as modern day Mary Whitehouses, just take a read and ask yourself why? What problem is this solving? Why do very young children need to be taught about sex and sexual pleasure? Are they benefiting, if not, who is?

(article behind a paywall, but there is a trick that will allow you to read it. A quick google should tell you).

Outrage over WHO advice on sexuality for infants

Guide argues that ‘sexuality education starts from birth’

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/05/13/outrage-over-who-advice-on-sexuality-for-infants

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ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:19

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:06

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WHOStandards-for-Sexuality-Ed-in-Europe.pdf

It is a WHO document (stop shouting). You might be ok with teaching your very young children to masturbate and sexual intercourse and all the pleasure that comes with it, but most parents would want their children to be a lot older before they learn about these.

It is NOT a WHO document. Which has been repeatedly pointed out. Which is why you should READ THE THREAD and why I'm SHOUTING because posters like you keep posting it.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-ireland-children-sex-education-curriculum-masturbation-5158825-Jul2020/

It is a document published by the Federal Centre for health education in Germany. It says so in the top right of the document.

It is NOT a WHO document.

FactCheck: Will children be taught how to masturbate as part of their education from September?

The claim had been made by social media users.

https://www.thejournal.ie/factcheck-ireland-children-sex-education-curriculum-masturbation-5158825-Jul2020

IamAlso4eels · 14/05/2023 14:19

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:13

I didn’t even think of touching myself down there until a couple of years into puberty. Didn’t really think of it until secondary school. If very young children are fingering themselves or touching their penis then that’s a safeguarding concern.

No, it's not! You'd be surprised how many times a day I have to tell children to take their hand out of their pants or to let go of the front of their pants.

As an FYI, puberty can begin as early as age 8 and children should have knowledge ahead of time about what changes will happen to them so that they're emotionally equipped when the time comes.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/05/2023 14:15

Is that the agenda here? Because I’m hyper vigilant about safeguarding and I don’t see red flags in the formal WHO 2018 guidance.

Yes, I agree. Seems that some people are cherry-picking phrases and not placing them in the wider context.

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:13

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:41

They already know about masturbation because they all do it.
Nobody is teaching them.
And they do need to learn about boundaries.

I didn’t even think of touching myself down there until a couple of years into puberty. Didn’t really think of it until secondary school. If very young children are fingering themselves or touching their penis then that’s a safeguarding concern.

CheeseTouch · 14/05/2023 14:13

@YetAnotherSpartacus said

A big focus of the WHO is working with girls to teach them acceptable boundaries and recognise the warning signs of gender-based violence and also that early, forced marriage is not inevitable.

Too right, and why would anyone be trying to discredit the WHO for preventing the suffering of women and girls worldwide?

Is that the agenda here? Because I’m hyper vigilant about safeguarding and I don’t see red flags in the formal WHO 2018 guidance.

Datun · 14/05/2023 14:09

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:06

That document has been circulating since 2010. The government didn't need the 'safe schools alliance' to bring it to their attention since it was never proposed it would be implemented.

I believe they were comparing wording from WHO, UNESCO, and PIE, about 'children's sexuality' and finding that they couldn't really tell one from the other.

Also, the fact that a potentially disturbing document has been around for over ten years doesn't, in my opinion, decrease the message it's trying to send, nor the determination of those trying to send it.

DrBlackbird · 14/05/2023 14:08

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 13:45

IT IS NOT A WHO DOCUMENT.

READ THE THREAD.

ICMEC uploaded a WHO publication. Right there on the cover page it states ‘WHO’ regional office. With the WHO logo.

May I respectfully point out that the use of ad hominem attacks and use of capital letters such that it is you who might be ‘frothing’…

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/WHO-Curriculum-Matrix-for-CSE-in-Europe.pdf

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/WHO-Curriculum-Matrix-for-CSE-in-Europe.pdf

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/05/2023 14:08

It is a WHO document (stop shouting). You might be ok with teaching your very young children to masturbate and sexual intercourse and all the pleasure that comes with it, but most parents would want their children to be a lot older before they learn about these.

Lucky no one is proposing this then!

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:08

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Signs of child sexual abuseChildren who've been sexually abused may exhibit changes in emotions or behaviour, or display physical signs of sexual abuse. This may include:

  • knowing more about sexual activities than other children their age
  • playing in a sexual way
  • masturbating more than what's typical for their age and stage of development

https://www.qld.gov.au/community/getting-support-health-social-issue/support-victims-abuse/child-abuse/child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-signs

Signs of child sexual abuse

Find out the signs of child sexual abuse.

https://www.qld.gov.au/community/getting-support-health-social-issue/support-victims-abuse/child-abuse/child-sexual-abuse/child-sexual-abuse-signs

IamAlso4eels · 14/05/2023 14:06

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 13:39

I'm not sure you understand that precocious understanding of sexuality in children is a sign of SEXUAL ABUSE. So if any child knew about masturbation and pleasure at that age, investigations would go on to find out who taught them about this. Teaching children that young is called GROOMING and is a sign of abuse or molestation. That's how doctors, child psychologists and social workers/services know a child has been abused. So if those 2 countries you mentioned allow this to occur, then if a child is actually sexually abused there is no way to tell.

Children who know the correct names for their body parts and who know what is or isn't appropriate in terms of how those body parts should be treated both by themselves and others actually tend to be at lower risk of abuse than those who don't. Knowledge brings confidence and confident children are better equipped to speak up.

Little Timmy knows that his body is his own and that no one except him is allowed to touch it unless they have specific reasons to do so (e.g., a doctor). He knows about PANTS and that private parts are private, he also knows the names for his private parts. He knows what qualities make a good friend and the properties of a positive relationship. He knows about tricky people and what to do if he encounters a tricky person (we don't teach stranger danger now). He knows that if anyone - child or adult - makes him feel uncomfortable for any reason then he should talk about it with a trusted adult such as his mum/dad or his teacher.

Little Johnny doesn't know any of that.

Which child do you think is more likely to be targeted by an abuser and which child do you think is better equipped to recognise that something isn't right?

That's how doctors, child psychologists and social workers/services know a child has been abused. So if those 2 countries you mentioned allow this to occur, then if a child is actually sexually abused there is no way to tell.

Knowing about their bodies and the names of body parts is not a safeguarding concern. Knowing how babies are made is not a safeguarding alert. Safeguarding concerns are all about context.

Professionals don't know a child has been abused based purely on them having knowledge about sex. Yes, one of the things were taught to be aware of is a knowledge of sex that is not age appropriate but there is a world of difference between "my dad had a sperm and my mum had an egg and they put them together to make a baby and now I have a new brother!" (a real comment a child has made to me) and a child making explicit comments about sexual practices - there is context. I have had a child draw a picture of his family and in the picture the stick-figure mum had a bare breast with a second stick-figure standing directly beside it with an open-O mouth, sounds worrying except mum had recently had a baby and was breastfeeding so when he drew his family he drew mum feeding the baby - again, it's context.

Precocious sexual knowledge is just one warning sign of CSA and we are taught to look for others alongside it such as a child being withdrawn, emotional, showing inappropriate behaviours, using inappropriate language, bruising, injuries, infections, etc. because - once more - it's all looked at within context.

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:06

Datun · 14/05/2023 13:59

I believe they brought it all to the government's attention. The government have said they won't be implementing all the advice.

But that is one of the points of the safe schools alliance.

Prevention. Which, in that case, would appear to be working.

There may not be many schools willing to teach children how to masturbate, although even one, is an issue.

But there will be very, very many organisations trying to get them to.

That document has been circulating since 2010. The government didn't need the 'safe schools alliance' to bring it to their attention since it was never proposed it would be implemented.

CoffeeYes · 14/05/2023 14:06

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 13:45

IT IS NOT A WHO DOCUMENT.

READ THE THREAD.

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WHOStandards-for-Sexuality-Ed-in-Europe.pdf

It is a WHO document (stop shouting). You might be ok with teaching your very young children to masturbate and sexual intercourse and all the pleasure that comes with it, but most parents would want their children to be a lot older before they learn about these.

https://www.icmec.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/WHOStandards-for-Sexuality-Ed-in-Europe.pdf

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:05

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Warning signs that children may have been sexual abused include:

  • children's excessive fascination with adult sexual themes
  • children's display of sexualized actions, gestures, language, or knowledge in advance of peer's actions, gestures, language or knowledge suggesting a much greater level of experience or sophistication than peers.
  • children engaging in or attempting extensive mutual sexual play with same age or younger children
  • children engaging in excessive masturbation or demonstrating a preoccupation with sexual activities and ideas
  • children engaging in sexual behaviors in public
  • children's int

https://www.mentalhelp.net/abuse/warning-signs-of-sexual-abuse/

Sexual Abuse Warning Signs

Parents of school-aged children need to be alert for signs their child is acting out sexually in ways that seems inappropriate or premature. Children of this

https://www.mentalhelp.net/abuse/warning-signs-of-sexual-abuse

Datun · 14/05/2023 14:05

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:02

" Open displays of sexuality, for example, repeated public masturbation "

In a child abuse information document I have, as a sign of sexual abuse.

Indeed. And this is the issue I was mentioning. It's all about the wording. Children touch themselves. Most of us have children - and we've all been one.

By the same token, masturbation can absolutely be a sign of abuse. It's not either/or.

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:04

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

Masturbation as a symptom of child sexual abuse - an analysis of the problem in the historical context of sexual deviations involving children.

https://www.cabdirect.org/globalhealth/abstract/20193405693

Restricted Content

Restricted Content page for Global Health

https://www.cabdirect.org/globalhealth/abstract/20193405693

CurlewKate · 14/05/2023 14:04

I'm not advocating it. But what's wrong with small children knowing about masturbation? Many of them do it-how is it wrong for them to know it's OK?

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 14:02

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.

" Open displays of sexuality, for example, repeated public masturbation "

In a child abuse information document I have, as a sign of sexual abuse.

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 14:01

DrBlackbird · 14/05/2023 13:55

So it’s been called sexuality education for fucking years does not axiomatically render it immune to questioning as the guidance evolves or is subject to further interrogation.

The recent document referenced upthread does contain guidance for 5 to 8 year olds (pg 50) that children be explained presumably by teachers "how someone’s gender identity may not match their biological sex (knowledge) and ▶ acknowledge that everyone has a gender identity (attitudinal).

I’m grateful that my DC are out of school now. I’ve tried to teach them that the idea of a socially constructed gender identity is not something everyone ’has’ (such nonsense) but rather is a construct that emerges from dominant political and economic structures embedded in a patriarchal society narrowing their definition of how to act and be.

"The recent document referenced upthread does contain guidance for 5 to 8 year olds (pg 50) that children be explained presumably by teachers "how someone’s gender identity may not match their biological sex (knowledge) and ▶ acknowledge that everyone has a gender identity (attitudinal)."

Except it states it's not a curriculum or a recommendation of how any country implements sex Ed. Nor does it say sex Ed is about teaching in schools but CAN involve schools but also HCPs and non- stat services.

So everyone can stand down with their frothing about this guidance aka advice being taught in UK schools since it's nothing of the sort.

Comby · 14/05/2023 14:01

Yes, widespread capture in many orgs unfortunately, so trust is low. And ofc media orgs have their own agenda re reporting. But to think an organisation like the WHO wouldn't excuse 'poor phrasing' and 'first draft' after a backlash is odd to me. Just because media orgs have their own agenda, exaggerate and quote lobbyists, doesn't mean the WHO report wasn't potentially revealing.

They want to significantly reduce alcohol consumption in the EU regardless and offer a few strategies to promote this. Women were equated with children in the report too. Some of us find this paternalistic and don't disagree with the general thrust of negative media reports. I did not spread misinformation because I did not link to press that said the WHO wanted women banned from drinking alcohol. I am not a conspiracy theorist and I'm not accusing them of being a 'nefarious' org.

It's difficult to get any understanding of whats going on without insider knowledge anyway, it's all bs out there. I don't care what 'Full Fact' write lol. They are not the final word and authority. I supplied a random article on the WHO topic so the poster could know what we were discussing btw, that's it.

Another example of this, I read rants on MN re Brexit all the time but who here reads Cummings' substack? He orchestrated the bloody thing and there's zero curiosity in what he has to say. Just endless reposting of msm media and full fact type articles, that is very funny to me.

I was practically hounded off another site for daring to post a single thing written by him. He was denounced as untrustworthy on the topic of himself but telegraph et al were fine.

Datun · 14/05/2023 13:59

ZittingBiting · 14/05/2023 13:53

I'd like them to come on and comment about something that isn't happening too.

I believe they brought it all to the government's attention. The government have said they won't be implementing all the advice.

But that is one of the points of the safe schools alliance.

Prevention. Which, in that case, would appear to be working.

There may not be many schools willing to teach children how to masturbate, although even one, is an issue.

But there will be very, very many organisations trying to get them to.

Dmitrii · 14/05/2023 13:58

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 13:57

IamAlso4eels · 14/05/2023 12:21

Considering that all the gloves, etc in our first aid kit have to be latex free in case of allergies I call bullshit on a school allowing a load of 9-10yr olds to put latex directly into their mouths. This urban legend has been doing the rounds for years, if you're going to lie at least make up a new one.

There are latex-free condoms you know.

CheeseTouch · 14/05/2023 13:56

VestaTilley · 14/05/2023 13:52

Agree with you. Very worrying that Labour might win in the autumn; they see no problem with this.

Problem with what exactly? The information in the document supposedly from WHO which isn’t from WHO?

DrBlackbird · 14/05/2023 13:55

So it’s been called sexuality education for fucking years does not axiomatically render it immune to questioning as the guidance evolves or is subject to further interrogation.

The recent document referenced upthread does contain guidance for 5 to 8 year olds (pg 50) that children be explained presumably by teachers "how someone’s gender identity may not match their biological sex (knowledge) and ▶ acknowledge that everyone has a gender identity (attitudinal).

I’m grateful that my DC are out of school now. I’ve tried to teach them that the idea of a socially constructed gender identity is not something everyone ’has’ (such nonsense) but rather is a construct that emerges from dominant political and economic structures embedded in a patriarchal society narrowing their definition of how to act and be.

TheShellBeach · 14/05/2023 13:54

Neopolitan · 14/05/2023 13:51

It's often considered a sign of sexual abuse, that a child has been abused and 'shown' how to do it. At least if it is overt and excessive, along with other sexualised behaviours.

Of course it isn't.
Small children masturbating is normal behaviour.