The WHO want your four year old to be taught about masturbation and gender identity

The programme I was talking about does do those things, it also covers peer to peer bullying and so on. As I have said upthread the biggest threat to children is often other children. Safeguarding is effective at protecting children from adult abuse but not so effective at protecting children (as in u18s) from peer to peer abuse imo. Lest not forget as well that most children's abusers are adults known to them and most often immediate family including siblings.

You are right Datun. Children should never have to shoulder the responsibly for keeping themselves safe and a lot of the rhetoric that we see on this topic just adds to the self blame that children who have been abused already experience.

That is why safeguarding is so important as safeguarding is preventative.

Children need to be taught about consent and boundaries and how to recognise grooming and abusive behaviour. A lot of what is badged as "helping to keep children safe from abuse" does none of these things.

Thank you for tagging me @Datun. This is indeed alarming and the more we learn the more we realise how safeguarding is both poorly understood and is being systematically dismantled

Safe Schools Alliance are calling for a public inquiry to establish exactly what is going on and how widespread these safeguarding failings are.

This is a serious issue. Safeguarding is preventative and concerns must be raised and listened to BEFORE children are harmed. Minimising concerns is a safeguarding red flag in itself.

The independent research we have published gives further background safeschoolsallianceuk.net/2023/04/29/unesco-who-sexuality-education/

We are still trying to establish the provenance of the WHO video but we have confirmed that the translation from Dutch is accurate. twitter.com/markmaycot/status/1657555408355991555?s=46

Our spokeswoman recently gave evidence to WESC on safeguarding failings in RSE - the evidence session can be viewed here fb.watch/kxFMOHHruT/

There have been several recent reports out on failings in RSE

www.newsocialcovenant.co.uk/RSE%20BRIEFING%20FINAL%201631%20(IS)_small.pdf

policyexchange.org.uk/publication/asleep-at-the-wheel/#:~:text=In%20this%20report%2C%20Policy%20Exchange,in%20a%20few%20secondary%20schools.

And just today:

civitas.org.uk/publications/show-tell-and-leave-nothing-to-the-imagination/

This has previously been discussed in depth in several threads on FW

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4805601-who-advice-on-sexuality-for-infants

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4796258-where-did-pie-go-who-and-unesco-new-guidance-has-routes-in-queer-theory-sex-positivity-and-believes-children-are-sexual-from-birth

These are extremely serious issues that everyone needs to be engaging with - not issuing knee jerk denials.

We are glad to see this being discussed on AIBU and not just on the feminism board. This is a topic that all parents need to understand and educate themselves about and we urge you to look at the resources we have posted here to help understand the seriousness of what is happening.

I understand that, and on the face of it it sounds reasonable.

But it's my understanding that the concept of teaching children to stay safe is fraught.

Because children often (mostly?) can't stop themselves being abused. And so the issue of self blame arises.

As I said, I'm not an expert, but I've tagged one! So hopefully some clarity will be forthcoming.

*'m not sure if you're quoting directly, but even to me, and I'm not an expert, the wording isn't right.

There's a lot of complexity around the concept of 'teaching' children to stay safe.

And of course, grooming ensures that the touching, initially, does feel nice, and does feel safe. Which is why you can't use those concepts as approved criteria.*

Quoting from the email from the school about it. I agree that it is complex and we will never be able to 100% protect children but any element of awareness raising and discussion in a safe school environment will protect some and will possibly give them the confidence to at least question certain situations a bit more

🤮 God, I am glad my kids are grown now, and missed this vile and minging boat. I swear I would have pulled them out of school, and home-schooled them if this had happened back then (in the 00's.)

I was sexually exploited as a teen as were many of my peers because we just didn't know enough.We were taught mechanics of sex and that was it. Nothing about consent or coercion, grooming or how vulnerable we were.

I agree with this entirely. Girls should absolutely be armed to the teeth over how to maintain their boundaries in the face of relentless porn. And boys should be taught to see the misogyny in it.

Some of the sex education that Warwickshire had to withdraw approved of porn. Made it almost aspirational. And a 12-year-old watching it. It was all very gung ho and cool.

I'm not sure if you're quoting directly, but even to me, and I'm not an expert, the wording isn't right.

There's a lot of complexity around the concept of 'teaching' children to stay safe.

And of course, grooming ensures that the touching, initially, does feel nice, and does feel safe. Which is why you can't use those concepts as approved criteria.

There was outcry when the NSPCC changed their wording from the basic fact of touching to depend on the child's reaction to the touching.

Agreed.

I know a lot of young people, some of whom have engaged in harmful sexual behaviours because pornography is so easily accessible and social media is full of crap and their Internet use and social media communication with friends isn't monitored well enough.

Some year 5 and 6 kids know what emojis denote certain sex acts. I didn't, being terribly old (in comparison!) and I'm sure a lot of parents don't either.

I was sexually exploited as a teen as were many of my peers because we just didn't know enough.We were taught mechanics of sex and that was it. Nothing about consent or coercion, grooming or how vulnerable we were. It was a badge of maturity to us that we had older men grooming and exploiting us. Being plied with alcohol and drugs was just because we were so grown up and we were proud to be not like other immature girls our age 🙄. Thank God camera phones and onlyfans weren't around then as I'm sure I'd have been plastered all over the Internet if they were.

I think people are very naïve. Unless we teach children and discuss safe sexual health in schools they will get it all online. It is crucial children understand consent, understand what is appropriate touch and so on. The biggest risk to our kids is other kids. There was a report on Irish news this morning about the increase in young children consuming porn online and how this can contribute to the increase in children sexually abusing other children. They are getting a completely distorted view of what sex is and what constitutes a safe, healthy sexual relationship. This is the biggest risk to children going forward.

From what I see of the WHO guidelines is completely appropriate to the age groups of children. My daughter is 10 and we received an email about what they will be covering in their stay safe programme this week The aim of this programme is teach kids personal safety skills so they can look after themselves in situations that could be upsetting or dangerous. It covers things like valuing and enjoying normal affection, understanding the meaning of personal and private, what to do if a person touches them in a way that is unwanted or feels an unsafe touch, never to touch someone else in a way they don't like, never to keep secrets about touches and so on. I was discussing this with my friends recently we are all in our 40s and feel we could have been saved ourselves from a lot of crap from men in our late teens and 20s if we had had this sort of programme in school and had to courage to protect ourselves

I think wanting children just have the basics is probably a bit of a reaction to how they have been exposed to so much pornography and sexuality at too young an age.

The Internet has turned sex education into a Wild West free for all. The outsourcing of it has been really detrimental. The government have lost control.

It's not happening everywhere, it's not all the time.

But it is happening.

Who can't grasp the concept that allowing adults to talk about sex, on their terms, to children won't attract paedophiles.

And it's places like Safe schools alliance who are so finely tuned to it, that when they say their radar is pinging, people listen.

Personally, I've never understood why the government can't come up with a syllabus for sex education and roll it out, age appropriately, across-the-board. Everyone is taught the same thing, at the same time, delivered in the same way.

Regulated and monitored. With input from a range of professionals.

it would close any loophole that is being exploited.

And that will teach children who are being abused that whats happening to them is wrong how?

As I said before people are trying to make out that explaining things around sex to children is to make it easier for pedophiles to groom them. Personally I think it's far easier for pedophiles to groom children if they dont know the basics like PANTs etc.

Oh yes. It's misogyny on steroids. You won't find disagreement with me there.

I just wanted to make a distinction, because gender critical women are constantly being affiliated with the far right, or fundamental Christian groups, in an effort to discredit their viewpoints.

I'm very aware of that.

But in the US it is very much the Conservative Christian right who are leading pushing those views and gained so much political power abortion rights were overturned, book burning happens and allegations of art being pornography.

All in the name of 'protecting the children'.

I think we are better off with just teaching girls before their periods start in the biology lessons about some basics and leave the rest to parents at home and for younger children concentrate on English and maths etc

What could possibly go wrong?

But they're out there shouting about how it's the homosexuals and the transpeople who pose all the risks and corrupting society.

just for the record, very many people can and do point out the risks to women and girls of trans ideology, who are not Christian fundamentalists and are not approaching it from that point of view. Many of them are homosexual themselves.

Indeed trans ideology undermines the very concept of homosexuality.

I think we are better off with just teaching girls before their periods start in the biology lessons about some basics and leave the rest to parents at home and for younger children concentrate on English and maths etc

Which is another thing happening in the Conservative Christian fundamentalist groups. Girls brought up to believe their sole purpose in life is to get married young, bei 'joyfully available' whenever their husband's want sex and produce baby after baby for God's army as contraception is interfering with God's plan.

And if they're sexually abused at any time in their life it's because they made the abuser 'stumble'.

But they're out there shouting about how it's the homosexuals and the transpeople who pose all the risks and corrupting society.

Here is a WHO discussion of bodily autonomy.

https://www.unfpa.org/press/bodily-autonomy-fundamental-right

Keynote by UNFPA Executive Director Dr. Natalia Kanem at a side event on “Bodily Autonomy – a fundamental right” during the sixty-sixth session of the Commission on the Status of Women.

Greetings Excellencies,
Distinguished Delegates and Friends,

Bodily autonomy... What exactly is it and what does it mean to UNFPA?

It is often misunderstood and often taboo, even in the most progressive societies. The first step to realize it is articulating the concept itself and talking about it in conversations like we’re having here today.

Bodily autonomy means my body is for me; my body is my own. It’s about power, and it’s about agency. It’s about choice, and it’s about dignity.

Bodily autonomy is the foundation for gender equality, and above all, it’s a fundamental right.

For UNFPA, bodily autonomy is mission critical.

We know that when women and girls have the information, the services and the means to make decisions about their own bodies and lives – free from violence, discrimination or coercion – they can chart their own destiny and realize their full potential.

And when they do, the benefits – to their health, education, income and safety – extend to their communities, countries and beyond.

Societies flourish when women and girls are empowered to exercise their bodily autonomy. Yet, many are still denied this basic right.

Somewhere today…

…an adolescent girl learns that her 13th birthday will be her wedding day.
...a young woman seeking contraception is told she needs her husband’s consent.
…a man forces his wife to have sex in a country where marital rape is not illegal.

UNFPA partnered to collect international data that found nearly half of women lacked the power to make their own decisions about whether to have sex with their partner; whether to use contraception, or whether to seek healthcare.

1 in 5 countries have laws on the books preventing women and young people from accessing contraceptives without the permission of their husbands or parents.

We see violations of bodily autonomy when a lack of choice leads to unplanned pregnancy. We see it in life-derailing practices such as child marriage and female genital mutilation. It is there when people are denied their right to live free from violence and harm, including online, as is their bodyright.

Some violations go unchallenged. They are reinforced by deeply rooted social and gender norms. Indeed, some of the most persistent barriers to bodily autonomy involve harmful stereotypes and misconceptions about the rights of women and girls.

Overcoming them will require a deep shift in mindsets and attitudes. It will require comprehensive sexuality education. And it will require laws that enable, rather than constrain, human rights.

UNFPA is committed to promoting women’s autonomy and decision-making on sexual and reproductive health; to protecting the rights of adolescent girls; and to advocating for policies that advance gender equality and reproductive rights.

But we certainly cannot do it alone.

We need a grassroots movement that is impatient. We human rights defenders to help us advocate for greater progress and stem the regressive tide of political pushback sweeping across the globe.

Thankfully, there is a growing contingent of women activists around the world pushing forward and challenging patriarchy, despite great personal risks.

Justina, a young human rights defender in Argentina told us:

“If you want to improve your quality of life and the quality of life for all women, never stop questioning society or calling for change.”

I couldn’t agree more.

As co-leader of the Generation Equality Action Coalition on Bodily Autonomy and Sexual and Reproductive Health and Rights, UNFPA is calling for a decisive, coordinated set of actions to achieve bodily autonomy, reproductive rights and gender equality well in time for 2030.

Yes, it is ambitious. But together we can achieve it.

As we observe Women’s History Month, let us be inspired by abolitionist and women’s rights advocate Sojourner Truth, who said:

“If the first woman God ever made was strong enough to turn the world upside down all alone, these women together ought to be able to turn it back, and get it right side up again!”

Together, let us turn the status quo around and roll back the barriers to bodily autonomy holding back too many women and girls. Doing so will bring us closer to what we’ve never had and what we desperately need – a just, prosperous and gender-equal world for everyone.

It is not about giving children the capacity to consent to sex with adults.

And the rise of fundamentalist Christians in the US who are against anything sex ed or LGTBQ in schools or elsewhere so are homeschooling and teaching their children that sexual pleasure is only for a man and woman in marriage and beating their kids or tying their hands together if they confess to masturbation.

And in some countries/cultures girls are married off young and can't say no because they have no concept of bodily autonomy (amongst other things)

And the rise of fundamentalist Christians in the US who are against anything sex ed or LGTBQ in schools or elsewhere so are homeschooling and teaching their children that sexual pleasure is only for a man and woman in marriage and beating their kids or tying their hands together if they confess to masturbation.

I wonder what staff at the Morning star think of being called 'right wing nut jobs'. 😀

And this is an example of deliberate minimisation and dismissal.

You obviously weren't around when Warwick etc, were forced to remove their RSE content Just There were numerous threads about it.

If posters don’t want to read it they can just scroll rather than make pointless digs

I'd like to thank @Bosky for her posts. I knew some things about Kinsey but she's provided lots of really interesting resources.