The WHO want your four year old to be taught about masturbation and gender identity

I wonder what's spurred this resurrection, consisting it seems of posting the same 2019 Graun article and slightly rewriting the same point? Interspersed with quoting posts? 🤔

Only just come across it after seeing a group of people quoting the same lie at some minor ( excuse the pun) demo in London this week.

They went downhill after their second album imho.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/aug/30/leaflets-falsely-claim-pupils-taught-masturbation-in-relationship-classes

Suggest you stop believing everything you read in newspapers, at least do quality research before spreading propaganda from the Torygraph.

Well this is a curious time to resurrect a zombie thread now isn't it?

Since when has the WHO ever been involved in developing any school syllabus?

More fake propaganda from the Telegraphs culture war dept designed to divide and conquer.

It’s been proven to be fake news. The Telegraph often prints triggering fake stories without correct journalist standard peer verification.
More divisive/ diversive outrage from the ruling class.

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2019/aug/30/leaflets-falsely-claim-pupils-taught-masturbation-in-relationship-classes

Datun · Today 20:01
Thank you for example for explaining, and I’m sorry to for the confusion.

It is true, a wide enough range in the consultation might create some checks and balances.

Yeah, I think Xenia was partly quoting me. Today at 10:21.

Part of my post was

Personally, I've never understood why the government can't come up with a syllabus for sex education and roll it out, age appropriately, across-the-board. Everyone is taught the same thing, at the same time, delivered in the same way. "

Regulated and monitored. With input from a range of professionals.

it would close any loophole that is being exploited.

I agree you would have to be careful who is consulted. Because the capture goes so deep. My thinking was if you consult a wide enough range, you will get checks and balances on that basis.

But yeah, personally, I think Mumsnet is definitely the way to go!

in fact, I think mumsnet should be consulted on a wide variety of government initiatives. Just to get a broad range of views, if nothing else. One thing mumsnetters don't do, is agree on everything 😁

(Still only partly joking...)

Datun · Today 18:24

I think that was my sentence that was being copied.

I was suggesting there should input be from a range of different people to come up with a government endorsed syllabus for sex education. Instead of outsourcing it to any old Tom Dick or Harry who fancies the gig.

Including child psychologists, developmental experts, teachers, healthcare professionals, HCPs and parents, etc.

To consult a broad range of disciplines.

Or...they could ask for some input from the women on mumsnet. 😁

(I'm only partly kidding).

Sorry, I should have said, I was quoting
Xenia · Today 15:50

You are both right in principle, but it is worrying because for example isn’t the Royal College of Psychiatry with Stonewall? (I think there was a thread about it.)

A lot of teachers believe TWAW.

Government guidelines include teaching gender identity.

Apparently the Civil Service are enthrall to gender ideology.

So your last suggestion may be the best!

I think that was my sentence that was being copied.

I was suggesting there should input be from a range of different people to come up with a government endorsed syllabus for sex education. Instead of outsourcing it to any old Tom Dick or Harry who fancies the gig.

Including child psychologists, developmental experts, teachers, healthcare professionals, HCPs and parents, etc.

To consult a broad range of disciplines.

Or...they could ask for some input from the women on mumsnet. 😁

(I'm only partly kidding).

Regulated and monitored. With input from a range of professionals.

A lot of professionals are institutionally captured. A lot of what we are seeing was produced by professionals.

I agree with this "Personally, I've never understood why the government can't come up with a syllabus for sex education and roll it out, age appropriately, across-the-board. Everyone is taught the same thing, at the same time, delivered in the same way. "
One issue is if too much latitude if given to a particular school or teacher their own personal views or agenda might intrude, although obviously some religions see abortion as mortal sin so religious state schools are going to have a different take on some topics than others.

Regulated and monitored. With input from a range of professionals.

I completely agree, I guess what I was getting at, possibly not all that clearly, is peer on peer abuse, peer pressure etc is often overlooked when it comes to safe guarding which is a worry given the rise (in Ireland anyway) of children abusing children and easy access to porn online is given as one of the reasons for this

Well then your safeguarding "statement" needs to address this. Safeguarding should encompass peer on peer abuse and provide a framework for spotting and stopping it. If it doesn't then it is not going to be an effective safeguarding approach.

I'm simultaneously reading the thread on FWR about all this.

How does explaining to children how to masturbate and interrogating them about their genitals on film sit with 'your private parts are private'?

https://twitter.com/markmaycot/status/1657555408355991555?s=19&t=UUt-ZHrXP0nQGSlD4G8x4w

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4805601-who-advice-on-sexuality-for-infants?reply=126184197

Love your intelligent, calm posts that also recognise the dangers of the conservative Christian right and why GC women and men should not immediately embrace them as allies.

Thanks, Trolly! I've been an active feminist for a very long time and I have a visceral aversion to alliances with the Christian right over most issues (I mean, in the old CND days I sang the odd happy clappy song on protests with more moderate Christian groups but the right ... no, just, no).

I was sexually exploited as a teen as were many of my peers because we just didn't know enough.We were taught mechanics of sex and that was it. Nothing about consent or coercion, grooming or how vulnerable we were. It was a badge of maturity to us that we had older men grooming and exploiting us. Being plied with alcohol and drugs was just because we were so grown up and we were proud to be not like other immature girls our age 🙄. Thank God camera phones and onlyfans weren't around then as I'm sure I'd have been plastered all over the Internet if they were

Thankfully, this was not my experience but it still resonates because that was how I was taught too and I can't even remember much being taught about it being pleasurable -and I do know of some girls who experienced what you did. It is partly why I vote for empowering young people as part of safeguarding.

I think there is deep and justified terror among some women here that there are those out there wanting to trans their children (or, children in general) and there are some pretty dodgy practices happening in schools where children are taught some very dubious things. We need to be vigilant here. But this does not mean that everything taught is similarly tainted.

Datun Today 10:47
There's a lot of complexity around the concept of 'teaching' children to stay safe.

And of course, grooming ensures that the touching, initially, does feel nice, and does feel safe. Which is why you can't use those concepts as approved criteria.

There was outcry when the NSPCC changed their wording from the basic fact of touching to depend on the child's reaction to the touching

I so agree with what you say here.

A groomer knows exactly how to initiate the child’s reflex pleasure responses from little touches mixed in with giving the child attention and treats, and what the child will see as affection. The groomer can do this so subtlety - even using the withdrawal of touch or affection, so it is the child who responds in such a way as to get more. This means the confused child may believe it was their decision and their choice.

Quoting from the email from the school about it. I agree that it is complex and we will never be able to 100% protect children but any element of awareness raising and discussion in a safe school environment will protect some and will possibly give them the confidence to at least question certain situations a bit more

Yes, I agree. There is a difference between empowering and responsibilising and it is also the case that we are teaching children skills and ideas for adulthood too (in age-responsive ways).

I am not sure where the idea that safeguarding and protection should stop here at the feet of the child came from. Approaches should of course be multi-pronged and have multiple points of responsibility and they initial WHO documentation supports that.

This documentation is also aimed at places where there are no adults to protect children and/or where adults are the abusers (for example, in cultures, including evangelical Christian ones where girls are married early and taught not to say 'no' and who are often blamed if they are abused).

2fallsfromSSA
I do understand safeguarding I have written the safeguarding statement for my own organisation. If you read my post I said I don't think it is as effective against peer to peer abuse

Love your intelligent, calm posts that also recognise the dangers of the conservative Christian right and why GC women and men should not immediately embrace them as allies.

That's led to things being way fucked up in the US and although we are a very different more secular country and culture, it would be naive in my opinion to think it couldn't happen here.

@Dulra I do not think you understand safeguarding. Safeguarding is not there to protect children from adults. It is there to protect children full stop and that includes from other children and from adults known to them.

Safeguarding children is like whack a mole.

Safe schools alliance is run by volunteers and they deal with safeguarding in schools, including analysing all RSE material.

Personally, I see it as exactly the sort of organisation that should be government funded, rolled out across the country, with a remit to tackle safeguarding across-the-board.

"We represent parents, grandparents, teachers, governors, and health professionals from more than 30 local education authority areas in the UK. Many of our supporters are parents, carers or grandparents of LGB or trans-identifying young people. Many are lesbian, gay or bisexual. This motivates us to ensure that schools keep every child safe and are inclusive of all."

The programme I was talking about does do those things, it also covers peer to peer bullying and so on. As I have said upthread the biggest threat to children is often other children. Safeguarding is effective at protecting children from adult abuse but not so effective at protecting children (as in u18s) from peer to peer abuse imo. Lest not forget as well that most children's abusers are adults known to them and most often immediate family including siblings.

Yes, which is why programs calling for a review of sex education by evangelical Christians who value 'the family' like the New Covenant should be treated very cautiously especially when headed by individuals like Danny Kruger who seems to have a very confused understanding of women's bodily autonomy when it comes to reproductive rights.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-bristol-62030114