To worry about the right wing?

I don’t understand this. Jeremy Corbyn was to the left of the party but Keir Starmer is to the right. IMO he is far too much to the right! There are zero left wing alternatives in the next general election, the whole political landscape has shifted to the right since Jeremy Corbyn left (wrongly IMO, as a teacher he probably would have saved schools from the current disaster but that’s another thread…)

how do you define far left and far right?

At the moment I'd say their conspirational obsessions are so similar that the old horseshoe is near-complete.

@Rspbc1
you might not like nigel Farage as prime minister but I’ve is not really a threat to people.

Have you seen the damage he's already done to this country? There's no way Cameron would have called a referendum if he'd realised Farage was the threat he actually turned out to be. t's people like him that have given Braverman the confidence to mainstream her racist immigration rhetoric. She ain't no cuddly little "social conservative". And since you mention National Socialists - have you ever heard of the Madagascar Plan? Because Braverman's Rwanda policy smacked of it!

Thanks for your reply. I don’t believe for a minute that people like Ms Braverman are far right, the far right are national socialist/ethnic nationalists. It’s an evil 20th century ideology. Braverman is just a traditional social conservative and a populist. Farage is basically a 1980’s Thatcherite as far as can tell. He’d have probably gotten on well with Mrs Thatcher.

you might not like nigel Farage as prime minister but I’ve is not really a threat to people. He is certainly not a fascist or anything like that, just a 1980’s Thatcherite in 2023 which shows how far to left the country has moved since then.

I’m afraid groups like PIE tend to hide on the left because there are sections of the far left that are genuinely sympathetic towards them, just like some of them are anti-Semitic and sympathetic towards terrorists.

how do you define far left and far right?

The left wing fit with more of your narrative.

Look at Big Brother for reference.

Views always harden during tough times. Each side becomes more entrenched and as people start to struggle, they inevitably blame 'the other side'.

Covid was very expensive for all countries (we basically crashed our own economy) for reasons that you may or may not think valid. Now we are paying for that reduction in income & productivity, with a period of austerity, as are most countries.

When the world works through this period and things improve for most people, politics will generally shift back towards the centre. Let's hope it doesn't take too much longer. We already have two wars and I don't think that's a coincidence.

The far left are a way bigger threat than the far right. The far right are tiny and nobody votes for the BNP anymore,

While I agree the far left are a threat, a huge one tbf, the equivalent on the right are your Suella Bravermans and Nigel Farage-supporters. And the former has actual power! Plenty of people do, and will, vote for a populist right-winger. And a Labour Govt is likely to unite Conservatives across their so-called broad church (they are MUCH better at this than the left are when they lose power). There is real potential that Braverman or someone like her could become PM off the back of a Labour Govt. Her rhetoric is dangerous, racist and fascist.

GB News is massive because there is an appetite for populist, right (and far right) politics.

The 2000’s was the last time the far right were a threat

Don't agree at all. Right wing populism has been spreading like wildfire across Europe over the last few 10 years.

The same cannot be said about the far left, communists are allowed in the Labour Party

Are there communists in the Labour Party? No MP's that I'm aware of and the actual communists departed en-masse because they can't get over their boy losing. They absolutely despise Starmer.

Some sections of far left are dangerous, there are sections of the far left that are anti-Semitic.

Yes, absolutely.

And the parts of the far left that supported groups like PIE in the 1970’s haven’t gone away either, they are just more subtle now and better at hiding.

Paedophiles are paedophiles and will hide where they can.

So, while hopefully a Labour Govt is on the horizon, the right will strengthen during their (probably short) tenure.

I'm also politically homeless.

The right wing have gone full blown Katie Hopkins. Very unpleasant views towards immigrants. Awful Tory government. Society in chaos due to austerity and wealth inequality.

Meanwhile the left seem to have lost the plot. They've got a huge problem with antisemitism and in a lot of ways have taken "woke" so far that even woke people have lost confidence.

The centre seems to have disappeared.

The far left are a way bigger threat than the far right. The far right are tiny and nobody votes for the BNP anymore, groups like the BNP or PA won’t even have more than a few hundred members at most and they are excluded from any where that matters. For example you can’t be in the BNP or anything like it and join the police service.

The 2000’s was the last time the far right were a threat and there is no prospect of this country electing a government to the right of the traditionalist conservative wing of the Tory Party. Even small unelectable right wing parties like UKIP ban ex-BNP members and the former members of other far right groups from ever joining.

The same cannot be said about the far left, communists are allowed in the Labour Party and being a communist wouldn’t get you ‘cancelled’ or kicked out of public life in the way that being on the far right would.

Some sections of far left are dangerous, there are sections of the far left that are anti-Semitic. And the parts of the far left that supported groups like PIE in the 1970’s haven’t gone away either, they are just more subtle now and better at hiding. Extremism is wrong on both sides, but the real far right is absolutely tiny and pretty much banned from public life.

@DownNative

What do you think about what JRM just said to the NatC conference today?

https://bylinetimes.com/2023/05/15/jacob-rees-mogg-says-voter-id-was-attempt-to-gerrymander-elections-for-the-conservatives/

Interesting and topical article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/may/09/projection-deception-sunak-staying-in-power-tories

That is very true, and it's because some people really don't think what their opinion actually is. You are told to repeat whatever ridiculous three word slogan written for comms.

These very simple messages are simple because they can be remembered but they are divisive. They are actually designed to stop actual thought.

Life is more complicated than- yes or no, good or bad, left or right.

We've been encouraged to forget that

^This with bells on. Particularly when politicians with such extreme views think they are by definition 100% right in what they believe.

Is gender ideology the preserve of the extreme only?

It feels too ubiquitous for that

It probably should be consigned to a minority though

Both extremes are equally terrifying and equally batshit, and very similar - the horseshoe theory of extremism. Let's not pretend the extreme right doesn't exist and that if they do, they're any better. Extreme of whatever political colour = scary.

The far left are terrifying , absolutely batshit

It is terrifying how far this insane ideology has got. Pushed hard by the misogynist Left.

She sounds dreadful and about 14.

I’m far more concerned about the far left at the moment, who seem to be embracing male supremacy and forced speech/thinking. But then the more extreme they get, the more extreme the right are likely to get - they’re two sides of the same coin.

completely agree, people in the U.K. like to keep their heads down. But there will be a point at which the majority being told they are disgusting right wing racists for.. I don’t know.. watching the coronation or having an opinion on of 500k immigrants a year moving to an infra-structurally overstretched country is sustainable.. and they will think well in for a penny in for a pound. If you tell people they are awful, what stops them identifying with it, especially if there are lots of people who share that point of view.

Re voter ID, it isn’t even required with a postal vote! Why is it that those concerned about people being disenfranchised as a result of the requirement to show ID don’t make more of this way round the problem? I only found this out because my DH and I have been voting by post for a number of years now.

I do wonder, though, whether this loophole will be closed come the general election?

@DownNative

a significant proportion of the public remain concerned that it is taking place.

I’ve searched online and can’t find any source for how this was ascertained. The PDF relating to the electoral commissions page is not there, and to be honest I find that claim hard to believe.

Voter turnout was significantly down. Let’s see if that’s replicated at the GE.
So you’ve stopped some people from exercising their right to vote, to please those with unfounded fears. Doesn’t seem like a recipe for increasing confidence to me.

I think if you went up to most people and asked this question:
”given that voter fraud convictions are practically non existent in this country, shall we spend £200 million and create a increased burden on polling staff to introducing voter Id, or should we tackle more important issues instead?” The answer would be overwhelmingly no, let’s not waste that money, let’s fix things that need fixing instead.

And I’m presuming that the types of ID needed was specified by the government, and they did it in such a way as to make it easier for older people than young, for obvious reasons.

https://www.electoral-reform.org.uk/voter-id-list-gives-few-options-for-younger-voters/

I really don't see why this cannot be on a wider scale.
Nor do I but there are some issues - brexit in particular, where there is no debate, just abuse on MN.

I also find that both sides rely on meaningless mantras which have no explanation or rationale.
‘Brexit means Brexit’
‘Bulldog spirit’
’Tax the rich’
‘Close the loopholes’

Then when you ask for a bit of deeper explanation they can substantiate and get angry.

Some of my siblings vote Labour, some Tory.
Some voted for Brexit, some against (with overlap between).

We manage to get along without screaming insults at each other or not speaking.

I really don't see why this cannot be on a wider scale.

It ought to be if you are tolerant and not judgemental. Accept people have different experiences and views.

Bit like religious beliefs, or absence of.