To worry about the right wing?

Well I agree it is the media message but overall "economic competence" has always been the strongest Tory message.

Saying "transgender pinkos" are coming to endorse immigration and then doing NOTHING to address this apparently critical issue is ridiculous.

It's not even a left right issue. It's a head in the sand issue.

People vote for them because of economic competence.

?????????????

That one reason, but not the only one. And my personal view is that is a handy fig leaf sold to people by a media that feels at home under Tory rule.

It's not mentioned so much nowadays, but it was certainly a thing in the 80s that voting Tory was an aspirational vote for a working class person. Like hostess trollies and matching luggage. Ken Livingstone praised Mrs. Thatcher for it in his hard-to-find-now excellent book "If Voting Change Anything They'd Abolish It". He said she had turned society from a pyramid with the working class able to outvote the middle and upper classes to an egg with a bulging middle class. And Tony Blairs "genius" was to realise that and campaign accordingly.

Ultimately, we can only live our own lives. We can only trust our own experiences. And my experience is that people I've known who say they are Tories because "of the economy" would still vote Tory in a Tory recession (as indeed they did in 1987). Because it's more acceptable to say than "I hate ...." with a shopping list of tropes. Immigrants. Single Mums. Layabouts. "Disabled" people. (Other peoples) Children. Tax.

I’m not particularly tied to any party (voted for a mix), I’ll see what happens with Labour, I don’t get the excitement at all as the economic policies are pretty much the same, but if that’s what people vote for so be it. Their choice, I don’t get not accepting votes generally. I don’t see what others do but it won’t impact me that much.

On parties though I don’t regret not voting for Corbyn at all. If there was an actual danger in politics we got it there.

Well good luck with the rabble that is left. I cannot believe how much idiocy the Conservatives have indulged in. People vote for them because of economic competence. They don't want extremes. I don't think they care about racial diversity or transgender politics. The only party that is now talking about these issues are the Tory party. That is perverse because it doesn't seem to affect the vote they get. It makes politicos all hot under the collar. It excites journalists. It sounds exciting.

But it doesn't do anything about bills, public services, corruption or crime which polling says that British people do care about a lot more.

There are some non crazy Tories who are saying this. They are not in cabinet.

There is no fix, not that I’ve seen offered so far anyway. By fix I mean funding not spending promised. Although I would absolutely take up Germany on that recent phone call.

Labour have the advantage of indicating they have one though

That’s not going to change they will always get to promise more as not in power, people are pissed off yes, but if they go too heavily on we did it before we will again we’ll see how it plays out.

Women’s rights aside if they do damage a successful sector, that’s poor. They could just be ultra bland without that and still get in

The Tory party is an echo of the US Republican party in congress. Enough wreckers to ensure it can never deliver a unanimous moderate voice anymore.

Successive leaders have dodged the pain of excising the cancer of a party within a party in the ERG and now the whole class is paying the price.

The irony is the smaller the parliamentary party becomes (and at this point it would be a brave person to look to any more than 100 seats) the more in thrall it will become to it's lunatics. Not less. And this is something the next leader (obviously not Rish!) will be factoring in now. As in no need to court 200+ people who won't be around next election.

You get the point. In focusing on cultural woke issues, the Tory Party is apparently ignoring that people are struggling. That is incoherent and the public will vote for a party that does talk about that. This isn't very complicated

It won’t change much unless Labour have some deep pockets for extra spending. And that means getting it from somewhere.

People are expecting more though.

The Tory party are finished because they only focus on woke or wedge issues which they use but do nothing about.

Meanwhile they do nothing effective about the poverty people feel. People feel poorer. Their public services are demonstrably worse than they used to be. Their day to day living is harder than it was.

None of this is rocket science. It is hugely privileged to say but woke or wedge issues are more important than being able to pay your bills or see a doctor. That's all this is, and if the Tory Party stop drinking American kool aid and look at the economic bottom line and improve it so people feel less poor then they will do much better. The current cabinet are absolute garbage on this basic aspect.

The by-election results demonstrate that Sunak's tactics of trying to appeal to the right are not working. He really needs to push the likes of Braverman out to have a reasonable hope of getting the support of the moderate right.

You probably will get the party you want next up but unless they pull out more tax policies than the ones on the table - I just don’t see any big shift possible and posts haven’t really rebutted that on economic grounds.

I thought the racking up the debt a bad idea but that was equally unpopular when discussed - likely loads of overlap there with posters

I actually do think a Labour gov in this climate is a different scenario to previously due to context so maybe that needs to be experienced to be believed. Apart from women’s rights which as people say they don’t care about, I won’t share that view.

The policies used for little gain are unfortunate as I don’t even think they’re needed for votes.

We all use different language.

The Tories have been a disaster for women's rights, just as they ve made it easier for a man to become a "woman" opening more nhs GR clinics and reducing the cost of a GRC, given the state of the NHS, you'd think they d not have money, obv a priority for them?

Correct, manifesto not out yet but it has been talked about by Labour.

‘Trans’ again.

Why don’t people frame it as women’s rights? After all that’s who’s impacted.

Labour are not proposing any of those taxes listed anyway

It’s only going for a sector with little gain, oh and the most mobile section of society.

We’ll see how much they can spin out of it, it’ll be interesting

Sturgeon wasn't sunk over Trans but over allegations of corruption, thats why she stepped down.

Do you think Rachael Reeves isn't "pro woman" ? does she want to see 51% of the population erased? as posters put it.

Lab have a fantastic record on getting women into politics.

I think there is plenty that can be done differently on the economy, Green investment, better EU relations (trade, travel, education) reform of the NHS, changes to education, unearned income taxes e.g with 5 years a couple can have 200k ring fenced from any taxes on investment income, CGT needs increasing, very low in the UK. CT is probably about right, mid G7.

My post, as answered was on economic policies, that’s what you asked

There is not much in it at all. Labour’s point of difference won’t bring much and unfortunately will damage a successful sector

Wealth tax has been ruled out, there’s really very little difference in funding

Labour can promise better infrastructure etc it won’t be possible though. Expectations are based on a different time so it’ll be interesting to see the reality set in

On ‘trans issues’ which is always a give away on how pro woman someone is, it always has the ability to bite politically. But tends to flare up based on a specific event as Sturgeon found out. I can’t see men getting less challenging / threatening on that count.

Just goes to show what a shit show right wing policies are doesn't it?

Brexit, Truss, Austerity, all lead to the disasters you mention, the Tories, though far right in their ideas, are so incompetent they can't even implement them, just listen to the Covid inquiry? we ve now got "Dr Death" running (and i use that term loosely) the country.

At least the voters of Bedford and Tamworth have seen the light and decided we need some change.

If the parties were the same as Sunny says, they d have a returned the Tories, these results also show that for most people Trans issues are way down their list of concerns.

Where is this hard right that you see so frequently in this country? What hard right policies have you seen.

We have the highest ever immigration, both legal and illegal.

Highest taxes since the second world war

State spending is almost half of all spending in this country, unprecedented.

The size of the civil service has never been higher and output never lower.

Socially, anything goes. You could be a woman in a hospital ward, raped by a man but told it didn’t happen because the rapist identifies as a woman. Paedophile safe minor attached people. Children are being given cat and dog toys by schools if they identify as such.

You could end up with a criminal record for a thought crime if you are deemed to say the wrong thing. Non crime gate incident.

Where is all this hard right stuff in this country?

The massive horrifying demonstrations we have seen against Israel have changed people’s minds. They have seen the hatred against the UK from the Far Left and many immigrants. But it is always the far right to blame?

I saw a ‘call me’ headline from Germany the other day over trade

Sounds good to me. Get that one going

Why? Right wing = racism and antisemitism (broadly speaking)

and yet time and time again the Labour Party has demonstrated racism, antisemitism and general intolerance towards anybody not inclined to agree with them. They have the least diverse cabinet and whilst the Conservatives have elected 3 women to prime minister, Labour not one, however they did elect a known anti semitic - Jeremy Corbyn - who was staunchly backed by their current leader and deputy leader. And don't get me started on Diane Abbotts and David Lammy's politics of racism! 🤣

I would say though that with hunt as treasurer the Conservatives are far more left wing in their taxation policies than ever before.

We will need to reverse many elements of Brexit to smooth trade. If it’s made easier for firms to export to our closest neighbours then they will have more money to invest and kick start growth.

the UK has its back against the wall. I expect cuts in benefits and pensions, in terms of not keeping pace with inflation. The Tories will do that I believe.

We do need growth. Starmer will have to go for wealth that is not income. That isn't going to come from middle classes, it's going to come from asset rich people and companies. And we need to spend it on infrastructure.

And we need to look at benefits. We don't have enough people contributing. I don't see it as a left right thing. It's about funding public service. We have a benefit system that doesn't put people into work and is a public subsidy for employees. Socialism for corporations to pay bad wages.

All these issues are difficult.

Imo though best to go for keeping highest tax payers for burden rather than otherwise

My point is as much as posters say these things irrelevant don’t matter to the public they do. We’ve seen it a few times.

I can’t see that changing, in fact given global context they will likely increase.

Economic policies are pretty similar, there’s no room for otherwise. That’s why I think this looking at past experience will set up too high expectations on the promises around the bread and butter stuff

The policies that get attention are too lightweight in terms of much economic benefit

You obv support the Tories.

What heavy weight policies have they got lined up to improve matters?

Brown isn't an MP, Sturgeon and Bryson both gone/sorted and Brexit, well who fucked that up?

Is that all you ve got?