To worry about the right wing?

If you think about it, what you chose forms part of the answer ... it's one of those rare occassions when it is all about you.

I’m afraid it’s mn that has adjusted my view. Over Brexit and pandemic, too much aggression.

I actually enjoy discussing a spectrum of political views irl

@Howpo

Oh yes - I recall now the Angela Rayner reference, but that genuinely wasn't what I was thinking of - I actually see the term used mostly on MN and Guardian forums (and from the horrible brother of a friend of mine).

I do appreciate we are both talking about personal experience, and there's no arguing with that - but here's an eg of a time when I (as a non-Tory, non-Labour voter) was struck by the spitefulness of a left-winger - will try to be concise.

When working for a national museum, we used to run outreach weeks to areas where schools couldn't visit London. We liaised with the LEA who booked their choice of schools into our activity sessions (no charge). I arrived at the centre and met the relevant guy, who wore his political views very much on his sleeve. He said 'We had a lot of enquiries from the schools in X area (affluent) but we've refused to book them. We've only booked schools in from Y (deprived area), so that smug, over-privileged bunch can just ..... off!' He said this with obvious enjoyment.

Now, I agreed with the policy, and if he'd put it perfectly reasonably, such as 'We've booked in schools from the less-privileged part of the county because we thought it would be a great opportunity for enrichment for them', I would have thought - brilliant! It was just the venom (politics of envy??) that really jarred with me.

Also - the vile couple of male teachers in the English Dept of the school I worked at in Brum when a young teacher. They claimed to be Marxists, and were very unpleasant. They were really sexist and praised one boy because of his choice of girlfriends 'He really knows how to pick'em!'. I never saw these men smile except in a nasty context.

But I always hope I'll meet a nice, warm, friendly, open-minded left-wing person - they must exist!

On what?

Anything or just politics?

If the latter sure, quite recently. When things up date / change I’m listening

If the former yeh sure recently too

I heard a really good question (from a source that I can't name here) yesterday which is a great way to gain an insight into someones mind.

When was the last time you changed your mind ?

As i said, its not my experience in RL.

You quote Rayners Scum remark, taking it out of the context that she was referring to MPs voting to keep children hungry, what would you someone you knew who deliberately kept a child with less food than they need?

She also (rightly) apologised for it but according to you most left wingers are nasty spiteful people based on what? you ve probably met less than 100 left wingers in your entire life!

Irony personified!

imho left or right wing doesn't make anyone a "nice person" there is far more to a persons character than their politics.

I know plenty of Tory voters who are kind and generous as i do Labour supporters, don't really understand what point your trying to make, its purely anecdotal.

@CoffeeCantata I have found the same. I think there was some research that right wing people see left wingers as well intentioned but naive and left wing people see right wing people as evil. My church is very conservative, I’m sure many mumsnetters would describe their views as ‘vile’ (women & men equal but different, transgender politics not ok, anti gay marriage) but they help hundreds of the most vulnerable people in our community each week. I tend to judge people on their actions rather than beliefs.

Plus I doubt the I’ll switch to reform voters are turning up in any case.

Women’s rights - how about transgender pinko headbanger policies

Getting better all the time, lucky dd (not, how depressing)

It's the maths - Cons on about 27 per cent. That's the headbanger vote; because it looks like moderate Cons are not turning out.

Hmm at ‘headbanger’ not really shifting that view put forward by @CoffeeCantata

I’m pretty central as it goes but so are both parties on economic policies

Not really interested in another forum, if I were I’d be on that one already

If anyone wants a more informed debate on the Conservatives you can check out ConservativeHome.com where there is actually a sensible discussion by conservative members on the absolute mess they have made.

The issue is moderate people will not vote for them. All they have left is their headbanger vote.

Howpo
No i haven't found this at all, in fact the opposite, one only has to look at the racist homophobic anti woke headlines the Sun, Express and Mail come out with Or Terresa May and her Hostile Environment (failed) immigration policies.

But that's not what I'm talking about - and why I mentioned that my experience was counter-intuitive.

Yes, by logic left-wingers ought to be nicer people - but IME, in everyday encounters, they're not. I could give many, many examples from my work in education and museums...but it would be boring!

My point is that left wingers are often really nasty, spiteful and aggressive people in practice. The very term 'Tory scum' is one clear example - there isn't really an equivalent generalisation for the left-leaners. And - people who use that term seem to ignore the fact that usually they're labelling half the population with a way OTT insult!

I also wouldn’t ask that question in any case as it’s a particularly ‘trans issue’ way to get an answer

Not my thing

Well of course I’m not expecting people to answer a question with my view, but their’s. Not that I ask it much of anyone, too busy with chatting over other things.

All the stuff you list comes down to funding. It needs to be there to promise stuff.

Sunny Egg

Authoritarianism increasing in left away from liberalism?

The Guardian to me shows this type of shift

Yes - I think that's true. I find the Guardian hard to take nowadays, and 'liberalism', in the sense of being open to a range of views seems to be a dirty word there. I often raise an eyebrow at the way some of their most controversial articles don't allow comments...smacks of cowardice on their part!

Now you've got me started on the Guardian! Something that has struck me but which I haven't often been able to pin down - a kind of controlling of the news, just as they would claim right-wing papers do:

A few years ago news broke of a violent attack on an Imam in a Birmingham mosque. The Guardian online was flashing it up excitedly. As I continued to check for developments over the next half hour, the story disappeared completely. I later found from the BBC that the attack had in fact come from a member of the mosque. Clearly this didn't fit the Guardian's narrative at the time, so got quickly spiked. They are not the paragons of journalistic virtue that they would like us to believe.

No i haven't found this at all, in fact the opposite, one only has to look at the racist homophobic anti woke headlines the Sun, Express and Mail come out with Or Terresa May and her Hostile Environment (failed) immigration policies.

Apart from women’s rights which as people say they don’t care about, I won’t share that view

Of course people care about the loss of womens rights over the last decade or so, but they also care about waiting 2 days for an ambulance, 24hrs in AE used to be a drama, now its a fact!!! they care about the 240 schools with RAAC, sky high rents, 3 week waits for GP appointments - if you ask someone who is in debt/threatened with an eviction/off sick waiting for an operation "Do you worry about a man going into a womans loo?" You wont get the answer you re looking for.

Genuinely, I feel lost on this thread, I have no idea of paradigms and have never read a political book.
I will definitely be voting Labour this time though because I see people (patients) living in utter poverty everyday and that isn't fair.
I saw the Tories lining their own pockets over COVID (PPE) and I lost colleagues because of it.
Then there was Johnson trying to change protest laws that didn't suit him. I ask myself why Rishi the billionaire wants a job that pays so modestly if it isn't to protect his own wealth and the wealth of his associates? This is the man who tried to divert funds from poor areas to wealthier areas but that seems forgotten about.
Also the complete fuck up of the billions wasted on HS2.
I don't know much about the far right, but I imagine it doesn't look a lot different to Pritti Patel. I didn't mind Theresa May as a prime minister (at least you got the feeling she had some integrity) and she sacked Pritti.
In my mind there isn't an alternative to voting Labour.

@CoffeeCantata I feel similar

Authoritarianism increasing in left away from liberalism?

The Guardian to me shows this type of shift

Secondly - a strange phenomenon I've found to be true in my experience: I'm afraid to say that the nastiest, most narrow-minded, bullying, sneering, (often misogynist), spiteful gits I've come across have been left-wingers. Tories (IME) have always been friendly, kind and much, much more open-minded. Sorry - but that's how I've found it, after a long career in education and museums.

Using a concept like "left" and "right" conveniently disguises the reality that it's a circle. Go too far one way, you end up the other. This is why you really couldn't get a rizla between Hitler and Stalin, and why life in a fascist regime is indistinguishable from life in a communist regime.

A much more nuanced view is a foursquare-type approach. But then you can still end up with people with whom who agree strongly on one topic, and disagree violently on another while bother being in the "X" half".

https://www.politicalcompass.org/test

I think I am "naturally" more on the socialist "from each according to their ability to each according to their need" kinda person. However that said, I think some of Mrs Thatchers ideas weren't so bad, and had very little time for the Militant looney left of Hatton and Hackney.

This is quite interesting on the economy. Debt to gdp is now 97.8 percent, as inflation falls and we all pay more tax.

So it is falling. What we do about the two major forms of public spending, social provision (benefits and pensions) and health is something that should be addressed by all the parties come election time.

I’ll pass. Women’s rights is women first.

I join this thread very nervously - because I'm not a 'party political' person, despite being interested in politics. I've never managed to swallow whole any one party's manifesto/world view. I guess I'm a sort of floating centre/soft/right, sometimes centre left (depending!!).

A couple of points, a bit off topic:

Someone mentioned the 'culture wars' as a tactical distraction by the 'right'. Hmmm. Personally I think the culture wars are really important at the moment! Won't bore you all with detail, but there are/have been some scary things going on recently.

Secondly - a strange phenomemon I've found to be true in my experience: I'm afraid to say that the nastiest, most narrow-minded, bullying, sneering, (often misogynist), spiteful gits I've come across have been left-wingers. Tories (IME) have always been friendly, kind and much, much more open-minded. Sorry - but that's how I've found it, after a long career in education and museums.

Anyone else found this, and if so - what's the reason?? It's counter-intuitive.

Come on @SunnyEgg - it's a piece of flippancy to convey the shallowness of the Tory message. They don't actually have a cohesive message on women's rights that doesn't refer to transgenderism. It is a reactive stance that does them no credit.

‘Transgender pinkos’

No women’s rights here