To worry about the right wing?

@Eleganz sadly true. Well said.

Sadly, plenty of people believe exactly what they have written though.

Lots of British people quite happy to see other groups deprived of their basic rights in the name of expediency and not challenging the status quo.

The report into the possibility of deaths linked to austerity didn't exactly say what you said.

Fullfact:

https://fullfact.org/health/130000-preventable-deaths-austerity/

https://fullfact.org/health/austerity-120000-unnecessary-deaths/

And the views of two experts on this issue:

http://www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-paper-on-health-and-social-care-spending-and-excess-deaths-in-england/

It is not a proven scientific conclusion in reality. But it certainly made for a sensationalist headline for various media publications as well as for rival political parties.

Truth is the first casualty and is usually a good deal more complex.

The UK has both far right and far left in terms of political parties as well as terrorism. Neither Labour nor Conservative fit either one. The reality though is that both parties aren't concretely set in a right or left wing paradigm.

Typing in "Labour right wing", for example, will give you results suggesting under Starmer they're leaning more to the right. Example -

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/nov/30/starmer-labour-rightwingers-control-factional-vendettas

https://socialistworker.co.uk/news/starmer-flies-the-flag-for-right-wing-labour/

Some have argued that British politics is no longer about left and right wings which explains to a degree Labour and Conservatives have policies that's in contradiction of the supposed left-right axis or paradigm.

Lee de Wit, a lecturer in political psychology at Cambridge University, argues this here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/may/11/politics-left-right-tories-advantage-labour

I think Starmer has realised its not about left or right and he's moved Labour in the right direction. Mind you, some like the two examples in the SOCIALISTWORKER.CO.UK and Owen Jones haven't caught up with Starmer yet which explains the criticisms he's had.

@Tratjymp i assume you’re a troll and shall ignore you.

Those dirty unemployables went there to spoil the show. Arrest and a big kick up the arse is bang-on.

I’m more concerned with the far left. You rarely hear “Labour Scum” from centre right, but the centre left use “Tory Scum” liberally. I rarely find people who resort to that kind of ridiculous insult even worth debating. The far left are shutting down debate at all levels of society and embracing cancel culture, this concerns me no end.

I too agree about the creeping authoritarianism. It’s very worrying.

I agree Eleganz. The creeping authoritarianism is a huge worry. And people don't seem to be able to stand back and see the damage this causes to individuals and society as a whole.

Well said @MillicentBystander2022 The erosion of free speech and right to association and protest is something we should all be concerned about, whether we are coming to this from a right or left wing leaning. Past 13 years it’s been happening under the Tory watch.

It is the willingness of large numbers of the population to enthusiastically embrace authoritarianism that worries me, regardless of whether that is from one political extreme or the other. There seem to be lots of people who take far to much glee in seeing those they disagree with face harsh treatment by the state and that is a worry for a true pluralist democracy.

Oh dear.

I'm more worried about the divide and control engineered by governments. Its great for them when everyone is fighting each other, instead of fighting them. Bet they all have a right laugh about how well its working out.

Are you having a laugh about the left shutting down the right?
We have the right wing press screaming hate filled bile at us all from every news stand. It's our right wing government that have introduced laws to limit protest rights and talk about cancelling the BBC.

I think the line between right wing and left wing has become so muddled in recent years and other issues such as Brexit transcended the traditional right/left split which further confused matters. At the same time though the left/right wing have become more polarised and society as a whole feels much less tolerant of others who don’t feel the same way. I mostly blame Twitter. It’s certainly had a very negative effect on my previously tolerant DH. It’s very worrying to me.

@Garethkeenansstapler we aren't living in the 70s or 80s when benefits were far more generous. You are harking back to a benefits system which no longer exists.

Can't quite work out where you are coming from OP and don't think you are posting in good faith. The current government isn't right wing and you are concerned about 'woke' but are left of centre ....... really ?
The Tory party of old no longer exists and I guess when people consider themselves 'shy tories' it's that incarnation they are thinking of.
The current crew are very different from the one nation lot back in the day when they were happy to tolerate the post war consensus with the emphasis on a decent welfare state, NHS and a certain degree of Keynesian state intervention. Current lot are a weird mix of jingoism (anyone for the National conservatives currently in the news ?), misty eyed nostalgia for the past, free market capitalism, authoritarianism and a dislike of globalism/ immigration. Are they your typical far right no. Are they bloody dangerous, certainly.
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/apr/30/national-conservatism-far-right-divisive-tories
https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/conservatives/2023/04/andrew-marr-national-conservatism-dead-end-for-tories
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/national-conservatism-is-a-danger-to-the-uk-economy-0zq0wtmqh

Yes, I do support PR. Yes, you do get some deplorables in coalitions. But to say that Italy is inevitable for all of us is just nonsense. I'm from the Netherlands which has had PR for as long as I've been alive. In that time I've seen several far right parties in parliament, and two offering confidence and supply type arrangements. All of them except the Christen Unie (truly scary hardcore fundamentalist Christians who close down their website on Sundays) have ended up blowing themselves up through internal discord.

And yes, Israel is scary but over there, religion is massively in play and that will always favour the right/authoritarianism.

Italy has always leaned right - Silvio Berlusconi was a very right wing politician.
Meanwhile Greece, which also has PR, is cracking down on its far right.

Meanwhile we have a system where in swathes of the country, people's votes simply do not matter at all. PR isn't perfect, but it's a hell of a lot better than FPTP and there is a good reason why most of the world uses PR.

Question for all the people here worried about extremists: Do you support changing the electoral system to proportional representation?

Because the huge strength of our present system is that it keeps the deplorables away from the levers of power. Don't believe those who say that PR leads to some cuddly, benign coalition government where every reasonable view is fairly represented. Italy recently elected its most right wing government since WWII. The smallest parties often exert disproportional influence because they end up as King-maker. Think about that next time someone tell you how unfair our electoral system is.

I agree with @Newrumpus , it's about authoritarianism and that exists on both extremes of the political spectrum.

The arrests around the coronation were a clear manifestation of authoritarianism - people being arrested for things they hadn't yet done. It's now been made clear that those arrested will not be prosecuted any further, which if you're an optimist means that the Met has realised they got it very wrong and if you're a pessimist like me means that it was always intended to be nothing more than a show of force to scare anyone away from dissent. We should all be very concerned about this legislation and how it was used last Saturday.

By Western Eyropean standards the current Tories are very right wing. This was not always so, but all the centrists have been thrown out.

Well said.

’Vulnerable’ used to mean somebody severely disabled or mentally ill, not just somebody who is a single mum or has ADHD (for example).

Society is generally very happy to look after vulnerable people to a high standard. But I think it’s getting tired of everyone claiming vulnerability. Which is now usually just a euphemism for poor life decisions. And of course people relying on the benefit system as a lifestyle choice - because they want to work part time, or pick their kids up from school, or for more ‘me time’. Paid for by everyone else not having those things, of course. Shouting at full time working tax payers that they should be ‘happy to support these vulnerable people’ otherwise they’re ‘right wing’ is pushing them further into the Tories’ arms with regards to benefit cuts and punitive measures for job seekers.

Yes.

Compared with where? Saudi Arabia? Iceland?

??

Haha. I thought you were concerned about the roof on your very big house!!

This and you describe my political position too.

That said, the hard left worries me much more than the far right.