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AIBU?

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Original poster

To be utterly dumbfounded

121 replies

Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 08:17

DD17 is currently almost 1 year into A Levels at 6th form. She’s doing Classics, Ancient History and Sociology, with a view to go into either Archeology or Anthropology etc.

Yesterday the Classics/Ancient Rome teacher informed them they had basically been headhunted by the local private school, who were offering a lot more money and would fund their masters.

This teacher is the only non-private one of these subjects in our county. It’s very hard to recruit to, they’ve said they might put an English teacher in as substitute. The class is moving onto the Aeneid in the Autumn and they’ve been told they might have to teach themselves it. The departing teacher is leaving her material on Teams ‘in case of the worst’.

So, potentially 2 of DD’s 3 A Levels are fucked. Classics is acknowledged to be one of the most difficult A Levels as it is.

It’s horrific that the state school system is so unwelcoming to teachers that this kind of thing can go on. As annoyed as I am, I don’t blame the teacher. Why wouldn’t they take the offer?!

OP posts:
Original poster
Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 17:52

There are 57 students who will be affected by this. Still no call from the school

OP posts:
Original poster
Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 14:48

Advert went live 5 days ago - 28-36k with requirement to be available weekends and a degree in the subject.

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 18/04/2023 14:31

How many pupils are affected?

Jux · 18/04/2023 13:54

Dd is doing History and Ancient History at Uni. She's seen the job prospects are really awful in her field so she's going to do a Law Conversion after she's graduated.

lanthanum · 18/04/2023 13:10

Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 12:40

@Clarinet1 you’ve nailed it! The school offered it, therefore shouldn’t they be under obligation to ensure the full teach is delivered? This really isn’t as simple as ‘oh well, change subjects’ - apart from the struggles I have mentioned Dd has, even IF she switched - she’s missed the best part of a year already. I also don’t think it’s a fair take to say that we have to expect this in ‘niche’ areas. Again, it smacks of these subjects are only for those wealthy enough to pay for it. The private school is taking the only available classics teacher in the county (the others are at the….wait for it…..other private schools).

Not heard from school yet. I would imagine there’s a number of concerned parents as several kids were aiming for Oxbridge.

"Not heard from school yet. I would imagine there’s a number of concerned parents as several kids were aiming for Oxbridge."

That might give extra incentive for the school to do the best they can, if they're the sort that trumpet how many got into Oxbridge.

Astrabees · 18/04/2023 13:09

My son did Latin A level in a state school, but only because of the willingness of an English teacher to step in (he had a history in Classics) The whole group of 5 got good grades.

ScentOfSawdust · 18/04/2023 12:58

I’m not sure you can really blame an “unwelcoming state sector” for the fact that there are only a few teachers who specialise in what is a very niche subject. I think ancient history is taught by history generalists in our school.

speak to the school. The teacher presumably will have given them more notice than she gave your daughter. They will almost certainly already have a plan in place for next year.

Original poster
Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 12:42

The sixth form is in Bedfordshire

OP posts:
Original poster
Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 12:40

@Clarinet1 you’ve nailed it! The school offered it, therefore shouldn’t they be under obligation to ensure the full teach is delivered? This really isn’t as simple as ‘oh well, change subjects’ - apart from the struggles I have mentioned Dd has, even IF she switched - she’s missed the best part of a year already. I also don’t think it’s a fair take to say that we have to expect this in ‘niche’ areas. Again, it smacks of these subjects are only for those wealthy enough to pay for it. The private school is taking the only available classics teacher in the county (the others are at the….wait for it…..other private schools).

Not heard from school yet. I would imagine there’s a number of concerned parents as several kids were aiming for Oxbridge.

OP posts:
Dixiechickonhols · 18/04/2023 12:16

https://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/315133-specification-accredited-a-level-classical-civilisation-h408.pdf

It’s an interesting A level (I did classics at school and Latin at GCSE but couldn’t continue at A level as it wasn’t an option in state sixth forms)

https://www.ocr.org.uk/Images/315133-specification-accredited-a-level-classical-civilisation-h408.pdf

Clarinet1 · 18/04/2023 12:10

Oops - how concerned she is!

Dixiechickonhols · 18/04/2023 12:10

I can imagine there’s no other states offering it and post will be hard to fill. My dd did GCSE classics and started yr 12 A level in Classics but they do 4 A levels to start and drop 1 and she dropped Classics. The teacher teaches Classics and Latin (whole school it’s a state grammar) No other school offers it locally. He’s an older teacher and I did have concerns re what if he leaves/retires. DD enjoyed it it was a mix of ancient history and literature so similar to English Literature. It’s seen as an academically rigorous subject.
I’d speak to school asap.

Clarinet1 · 18/04/2023 11:59

I don’t agree with those who are arguing about the value of classics or any other subject. To me the point is that the DD chose and started a course which the school offered and is now stuck without a teacher part way through at a stage where more less any solution (another school, another subject etc) would cause considerable stress and could demonstrably affect the DD’s future. I don’t know whether the withdrawal of a subject could technically legally constitute a breach of contract - perhaps a lawyer could advise.
I suggest the OP should talk to the school urgently explaining how concerned he
is, mentioning the DD’s potential special needs and insist a solution is found. (Actually, if DD gets an EHCP, I wonder whether some 1-1 payment could be used to get tuition).

Bruschetta1 · 18/04/2023 11:40

@Swansandcustard thanks for the update, just wanted to wish you and your DD the best and will have my fingers crossed her school help. ☘️

sweeneytoddsrazor · 18/04/2023 11:38

When my DC made their A level options one thing they had to consider in all the places we looked at, school 6th form, college, 6th form college, faith school 6th form, fee paying 6th form , was that courses were only offered if enough pupils wished to take it. Which meant that they may have to decide did they want a different course at their preferred placement or or their preferred course at a different place.
Your daughter has chosen a very narrow study field for A level, if she can't find another place that offers those A levels, then I would suggest she broadens her A levels to English and History and specialises at uni either at undergraduate or better still masters

Original poster
Swansandcustard · 18/04/2023 11:32

Thanks all. Classics is more the civilisation, culture and arts of the Greeks/Romans etc. There are bits of Ancient Greek to learn, but it is only a small part of the syllabus. Yes, it’s very similar to ancient history, which is why she chose it! She laps this stuff up!

There’s absolutely no possibility of her taking the lead to address possible options. She suffers from extreme anxiety and is on the pathway for an ASD assessment.

It’s very easy for us adults to say ‘oh just choose a different A’ level a year in but try to put yourself in the shoes of a 17 yr old who has finally found a passion and has this rug pulled from under her. They were told that they were very lucky to be able to do Classics as there was no other teaching provision locally in the state sector (and we did look at several prior to her commencing sixth form, and would definitely agree). No teacher has left the private school, they’re expanding their provision. They’ve been scouting this teacher for a few months, as supposed ‘collaboration’ but are completely taking the teacher now.

The subject doesn’t fit neatly into other disciplines - most people don’t study The Odyssey/Aeneid and certainly not all the interwoven facts around the politics and events of the time.

I’ve left a message with the Dep Head…

OP posts:
Mochinated · 18/04/2023 11:23

Massive overreaction. Ideally DC is interested in the subject regardless of the teacher. It's not a bad thing to see this as an opportunity for DC to take more personal responsibility for learning and coursework/exam prep. That's what will happen at uni anyway.

Some good suggestions on this thread for getting outside support if needed. But ideally DC is interested enough to keep going regardless

FlosCampi · 18/04/2023 11:22

I've messaged you with a suggestion @Swansandcustard

DuringDinnerMints · 18/04/2023 11:17

I did Classics at A Level and degree level. It's a respected subject to any graduate employer, even if you don't choose a history related career.

OP I would speak to the school to see what they suggest. I'd also look into a tutor for small group sessions, if you can get a few other parents to chip in. It might be that the school are willing to pay, since they will want the students to get good results.

There are lots of study guides to the Aeneid and an English Lit teacher will be able to teach them how to answer exam essay questions, how to lay out their coursework etc, even though they don't know the content.

If she's still set on a classics related degree, she could apply for a summer school to help boost her application. Repton school in Derbyshire have one, as well as the Sutton Trust at Oxford Uni.

I really hope the school are willing to help.

pantjog · 18/04/2023 11:12

This reply has been withdrawn

This has been withdrawn by MNHQ at the poster's request.

lanthanum · 18/04/2023 11:03

JellyBabiesSaveLives · 18/04/2023 10:59

You'd think. Ds1's computer science teacher left due to illness in October of y12. They've had a few lessons with maths teachers, 2 temporary teachers (neither were qualified teachers, neither had experience of teaching A level, neither seemed capable of organising their way out of a paperbag). He's sitting the A level in 2 months, having basically taught himself.
If there are no teachers who want the job, what can the school actually do?

Show quote history

I saw someone who was cross that their child's school had just announced that they weren't going to run computer science after all. Better that they made that decision with time for students to choose something or somewhere else, than that they gambled on finding a replacement in time.

JellyBabiesSaveLives · 18/04/2023 10:59

BringtheJury · 18/04/2023 10:01

If the school have offered these subjects, then isn't it up to them to find a solution?

You'd think. Ds1's computer science teacher left due to illness in October of y12. They've had a few lessons with maths teachers, 2 temporary teachers (neither were qualified teachers, neither had experience of teaching A level, neither seemed capable of organising their way out of a paperbag). He's sitting the A level in 2 months, having basically taught himself.
If there are no teachers who want the job, what can the school actually do?

lanthanum · 18/04/2023 10:59

Talk to the school urgently about what plans they might be able to put in place. As others have mentioned, they might be able to persuade the private school into some arrangement. It's possible that whoever has created the vacancy at the private school has retired but might be persuaded into a little A-level teaching until next May. It's also early enough that they may be able to recruit a new teacher - most likely newly-qualified, as those working in the private sector usually have to give a whole term's notice, but maybe a returner. If there's any networking locally between classics teachers, they should get the word out - someone might know someone.

If they can't find a teacher with experience of those subjects, do they have a history teacher with some enthusiasm for learning a new spec (you want it to be someone who sees it as a challenge/opportunity, not someone who just gets it dumped on their timetable)? An English/languages teacher who did classics at A-level? Can they get the teacher(s) concerned on a suitable training course, or pay for someone to support them? Maybe the private school, as part of their support for the wider community, could give the current teacher an hour a week to provide some support and advice, and moderate marking, etc. (This might also apply if they employ a newly-qualified teacher, who might need some support.)
And if end up with a make-do option, what can they do to boost? For example, can they get someone to come in for some whole-day workshops (perhaps the current teacher, if the private school term dates are shorter)? Can they find an Easter revision course and pay for the kids to attend?

If the solution found is not ideal, that needs to be explained on the UCAS applications - hopefully universities will be willing to make contextual offers even if the students would not normally qualify. Hopefully mocks and predicted grades will be unaffected, so offers should be okay - perhaps some phonecalls after offers might be useful, to make sure the universities are aware that final results may be impacted. If the universities know, then they may be generous when they look at missed offers.

Note to school management everywhere: if you have a single difffcult-to-replace teacher for two minority subjects, be wary of allowing students to sign up for both.

Reality25 · 18/04/2023 10:46

I agree that probably the greatest failure of all our public sector organisations is the ridiculous pay band structure.

Very little flexibility to reward top performers and high-demand-low-supply employees. Instead choosing to subsidise the low performers and oversupplied roles.

Leads to the best and brightest (who end up doing the lion's share of value-add) either leaving for the private sector to be rewarded fairly or just drained of motivation if they stay.