Closing all private schools would benefit state schools

Our private school contributes significantly to the community, It offers alot of bursaries. It has a SEN cohort that makes up 27% of the total cohort. (Most of these kids- like my DC with additional needs) were totally failed by the state provision around here. The school has a teeny boarding section and has provided free places to some Ukrainian refugee children. The state schools around also use the facilities from games pitches to the theatre. This year (and I don't know if it has happened before) the school placed specialist music teachers FULL TIME in the next door primary school and paid for them out of our regular school funds. That's just what I can think of off the top of my head.

These are all great things. It would be better if all state schools had all the resources they need- but at present they don't. And yes, like others I have seen plenty of well off parents buying into better catchment areas (or even renting in good catchment areas while living in their actual house elsewhere) this driving up house prices. It's beyond me to understand why people somehow think playing fast and loose with catchments is morally superior than just paying for education.

and I agree future success dictated by way more than school @lolo99 it is just that school is one way of levelling the playing field. Or it can be. I suppose whether you think that’s important or necessary is a matter of perspective. I think it is, even without arguing that it would actually be cheaper in the long run.

I’m not arguing in favour of getting rid of private schools @lolo99 the state currently doesn’t provide what many children need. I use the private sector. While the state currently fails to provide a decent education for all, removing access to private education will only make matters worse. Restricting private education wouldn’t be necessary if the state did all it should.

I think the state is short-sighted in how it underspends on education, leaving people who are then ill-equipped to make a positive contribution to society. It’s self evident that front loading 14 years of spending on education would be cheaper than the following 60 years of potential spending on benefits, social care and in the worst cases, prison.

Noble idea but not sure it’s practical without a LOT more investment in state schools

rich people will always find a way to buy privilege for their children, closing private schools won’t stop that.

@DragonMama3 'Can you cite any examples of private schools gifting to state?'

DS's small independent provided the cover for the children of emergency workers during lockdown because the local state school refused.

They open the pool to three of the local primaries for swimming lessons.

They share DoE resource as well.

But straight gifting - no - everything is used until it falls apart or it is sold to cover replacement costs. There's no spare money.

There is way more to a child’s success than the school. In fact school is a tiny proportion. People obsessing about private. Vs state as the golden nugget are ignoring the glaring realities. Genetics, upbringing and homelife are far far more important. Getting rid of private remission will not change these fundamental facts however much the blame of not achieving wants to continually be blamed on ‘oh it was my school.’

Are you sure it would be cost effective? What evidence do you have for that?

Oh so a school educating severely disabled children are a joke having charitable status?

Not the top third academically (I said originally that once balanced right it should stop being about academic prowess). The third of the population that wants a higher quality of education and is in favour of paying more to get it. Which a lot of people aren't.

I think charitable status for private schools is a complete joke. They are re writing the rules to suit themselves

That’s not what your previous post said at all @KaihahUmoniiv which suggested reserving the higher quality provision for the children in the top 3rd.

Spending the most money on the bottom third would probably the most effective from a cost point of view. It would greatly reduce our social care and benefits bills of the future. And it’s not a coincidence that a very high proportion of the country’s prison population has some form of additional learning need.

I agree with you that all children should have a higher quality education. If I was in charge all schools would have the same funding levels as a typical private school, teachers would be paid better and have sufficient non-classroom time to get all their work done without having to stay up till midnight at home, and it would all be paid for by general taxation.

However the population keeps voting for lower taxes instead because the majority of taxpayers don't want the tax bill that would be necessary to achieve this.

So I am trying to imagine an opt-in higher tax regime that is genuinely means-tested so that the poorest will pay very little and will be subsidised by the richest, so that families who do believe in higher taxation to fund better education are able to do so at all income levels.

I also agree that it should be possible for this to apply at all levels of ability, not just for the brightest kids.

@Imsorryyoufeelthatway that is exactly what happens with people who consider themselves left wing, it’s actually hypocritical. Personally I find it somewhat distasteful when people rant on and are anti private education but then do this.

Our experience is different. Our dc went to our local comprehensive which is rated Outstanding and is oversubscribed.

At the point they atended, within the catchment were some of the cheapest houses in the area, plus a higher proportion of pupils on FSM than the next nearest schools.

The catchment area has now been split in two as a sister school has been built in the cheaper area. That is also Outstanding and oversubscribed.

This. My DC go to a state school that is like this. Essentially a private school but free. Family homes in the surrounding area start at around £600k - 2m. The parents donate enormous amounts of money and provide free services for the kids so that they have the best.

Those resources and teachers are still for the posh kids.

Your proposal @KaihahUmoniiv assumes that only the brightest children deserve the “private school equivalent” input. Whereas those children often need least additional support, and it’s the middle third who stand to gain the most from targeted support. In reality all children deserve a suitable and sufficient education, it’s just that the state doesn’t currently provide that for many.

I think you are an idiot OP.

SEN provision in the state system is shit. You know why?

Because 30 kids in a class doesn't work for them.

You realise that treating everyone the same is sometimes the most unfair thing you can do.

Private schools are not businesses and don’t have shareholders. They are charities and most of them spend the bulk of their fee income on teachers’ salaries.

Those not in the state system have actually no idea what the reality is. People think the govt would give more money. No they wouldn’t and the wealthier would just buy in certain places, like they do now. The struggle that comes with poverty outside of school would still be there. Just worse as still no extra suppprt.

And how many of those people send their kids to private schools? Or switched them to excellent state schools when they realised the optics weren’t great in regards to their voter base?

They would have a totally different mindset. You're naive if you don't think having a cabinet made up of people from the same educational background doesn't impact on their support (or lack of support) tor state education.

It won’t make them invest more money in any public schools or health- it won’t- don’t be naive. The people who can pay for things, will still pay for things.

Staff prepared to take on the commitment of training... for free.

When I'm sitting in a freezing cold classroom with no pencils, no paper, we've run out of exercise books and there's no staff to support the children who need it, I often think how a donated kayak would solve all my problems.

Randomly, DC's independent secondary passed on several racing kayaks when they got replacements, so that a local comprehensive could enter a team in the Devizes-Westminster race. I presume that they asked a few schools but only one was interested or had staff prepared to take on the commitment of the training.

Can you cite any examples of private schools gifting to state?