Closing all private schools would benefit state schools

AmniMajus
The problem is that many top professions are dominated by privately educated people and privately educated people are not intrinsically better than everyone else. State schools are also in a mess from over a decade of deliberate underfunding and being a political football.

The other issue is that when discussing private schools a lot of people don't /won't consider that there is a big difference between a local private school that parents might choose and the sort of highly competitive, tutor your children within an inch of their life from 4, exam factories, expensive private schools and the very expensive ones like Eton that only the very wealthy can afford. They like to categorise everyone into the super wealthy category because it allows for several straw men to be drawn.

Short term it would be difficult. Long term it would be one step towards an equal society.

But, if done isolation, what’s the point? Society needs a huge overhaul, this is just one part.

Not to mention there is no appetite for change. Most people like the status quo (of private schools and society in general). It is the backbone of British society and the values - “my family first, wider society never”, which is allowing us to be the great country we are.

The big boarding schools would move premises to Ireland and everything would carry on as normal. Day schools and smaller boarding schools couldn’t, so as private companies they would sell off their sites to be luxury flats and close.

Parents with kids in private schools would move into areas with the best state schools reducing their accessibility to other people. The 2 tier state system, which already exists, would widen. Schools would be more stretched economically with the influx of new students and little extra funding. (The government doesn’t have to find another 5 % funding, it will just say it hasn’t got it.)

Private school teachers would mainly set up as tutors and make a fortune -a whole new industry in private tutor academies and summer schools / Saturday morning schools would spring up. some would leave teaching, some would work in the best state schools.

Nothing significant would change really.

The state sector would be very different, though, if the rich people had to use it for their DC, though.

People with serious influence and power would be properly invested in improving the state sector and making sure the government fund it properly.

What is it about private schools that rattles folks cages so much.

we have a problem with healthcare, why not ban all private healthcare and hospitals, stop those pesky doctors earning money on the side when they should be serving the nhs.

what about housing, it’s a travesty people live in detached 5 bedroom houses when all that space could be used to build multiple houses. Everyone should live in identikit tiny house.

how about organic food? Waste of space when farmers could be cramming more animals in per sqft or sowing crops right up to the field edge rather than creating wildflower strips to encourage beneficial wildlife. Why bother when it makes food more expensive?

The point is people have a choice how they spend their money, it’s not your job, my job or the government’s job to tell them how to do that because it doesn’t align with our particular values.

I think we need a complete overhaul of schooling in this country and this would be a good start. No more religious or in any way selective schools, education needs to be inclusive. No expensive uniforms. No more buying up houses by good schools, all schools should be offering the same standard of education of all schools.

We also need to overhaul Ofsted. Ofsted inspections should not be about downgrading or punishing schools, it should be about identifying weak areas in a school and fixing them. Teaching not good enough? Extra training. Management not up to it? Training and oversight by a successful management team. Etc.

OP of course, if rich people had to send their DC to state schools, the school system would be better. It's a no brainer. And it's something we should strive for.

It happens in other countries, there's no reason to think it shouldn't happen in the UK one day.

It'll take a lot to convince people though. The private / state school system is one of the core ways inequality and the class system is upheld in the UK, and as you can see on this thread, many people are either invested in keeping it that way as they don't want to lose their privilege, or are so used to it, they won't let themselves imagine another way.

A lot of private school teachers are there because they have had enough of the state sector. I think you’d find many would leave the profession.

btw where is this extra government funding coming from suddenly

This, plus the cost of building new schools or adding temporary classrooms in the playground of existing ones.

Where I live there are hardly any in year places available. They have been trying to build 2 new secondary schools for years. 1 is now open. The other is experiencing endless planning wars.

There are several private schools that in theory (fantasy?) could be purchased. The fancy one has grounds and a swimming pool etc. That will be expensive to buy and expensive to maintain. The others are in converted houses. The classrooms are on the small size for their classes of 20ish. No way would you fit in 30, so not really viable for a state school.

Of course YANBU OP.

It's amazing to read in some of these responses that private school parents think they're doing the rest of us a favour by upholding a two tier education system

I think you've struck a nerve. Removal of charitable status can't come too soon.

If you are a teacher, OP you are embarrassing us as a profession.

Moving to private kept me in education. I know many of my colleagues feel the same. I would not return to the state sector.

It's an interesting thought. How it would play out would be very different from area to area.

Where I live in the midlands there is only one private school and one secondary school in each surrounding town. None of the state schools are outstanding. Some are in and out of Special Measures like they are caught on the door handle. The private school doesn't have to work hard to be better than the local state provision.

If the private school were to close down the state schools would have to find space for an extra 50 students each across all secondary years.

The main facility which would be released is land. In a not very nice town!

TBH it would probably make very little difference.

You Asked why there would be protracted legal battles.

because the private schools own the materials and buildings you seem to think the government can just appropriate for free. it cannot. And the government will not want to stump up the money to compensate the various charities.

You may have been voluntarily given offcasts before - but I assure you the school calculated first where the benefit to the school was. Giving away outdated equipment to the needy would have been used as evidence of charity. Or done because they needed good local relationships. Or because it would cost more to dispose of the stuff in another way.

a school forced to close does not need to have good local relations etc. instead the trustees have legal duties to collect in money for those assets (and they will)

don't think anyone can claim to be "left wing" and send their dc to private schools (barring some reasons connected to disabilities perhaps)
Why not?
Why should a parent deliberately put their child in an education setting that isn't right for them just to so that strangers don't doubt their left wing credentials?

I can't afford private for mine, I'm a teacher, and centre left politically, but there are some local schools that I would move heaven and earth to make private school or homeschool happen before I send my children there.

@Nimbostratus100

I asked you where the money was coming from this was your answer.

the government pays schools per pupil, that is how schools are funded, so more pupils is more pay

I worry that someone who claims to be a teacher thinks that this answers my question.

Thank god this thread is complete bollocks.

“The government” doesn’t have any money to pay for anything. “The government” raises revenue from taxes or borrowing.

You sound very naive to how the country is run.

If the private schools closed I would be quite peeved.

I value living in a country where the state does not dictate the decisions I make regarding how I educate my children and spend my money.

What next on this slippery slope, I wonder?

Where will the money come from?

So where does the money come from to fund this? The magic money tree? I note the figures from MintJulia.

My dd moved from state secondary to private provision because her ofsted outstanding school was completely stifling her. She wasn’t learning. Lockdown saved her education actually. We tried it your way. It didn’t work. Are you saying that we should have just accepted dd would be extremely unhappy and unable to learn because she couldn’t cope with the learning environment?

Children don’t just go to private school because parents can afford it. They also go because children cannot cope and parents use up savings or borrow money to send their kids there. One of dd’s friends left for the same reason and parents are also in that exact situation. As are we.

Also to be clear about the stats. It’s 7% of British children. Not foreign. Within this 8% secondary, which goes up to 16% for A levels.

Where do they all go? Every single state school around my way is bursting at the seams for my dd’s year (year 10) regardless of their ofsted rating. And what should the state do with those half way through GCSE and A level courses. Pull them out and force them to go back to the start or fund the private schools until the students have left?

Why would the government put more money in for my child than it does already for your child?

It's a stupid idea and it's the same.knee jerk politics that was behind Brexit. Resentful people being told that they'll benefit if a certain sector of society is removed from the equation.

All parents pay tax to cover their children's education by the state
Well that's not really true, is it, if you mean it literally. The tax paid by most parents won't come near paying for their dc's education. And it's also paid by people without children.

@Nimbostratus100

I might have missed where you said this but where is the extra money for the government to fund all these state school places coming from?

There is no extra money coming in so I see two possibilities

1. increase in tax

2. decrease in the amount given per pupil

Or do you have another suggestion?