Closing all private schools would benefit state schools

Many private schools are not businesses at all. Ours is not. It is non profit making. We get copies of the accounts twice a year. I can see the money going into education.

@EmmaGrundyForPM My ds is on a 50% scholarship. You imagine I could pay for a housekeeper on £9k a year. 😂 And I've yet to find a nanny who will work at 5 minutes notice.

This is the problem. People who think independent schools are all like Eton, simply don't have a clue of the reality.

In the good state school she works in the pupil behaviour is appalling.

Yes, most parents have no idea how bad the behaviour can be in their children's 'good' schools imo. If they could be a fly on the wall they would be horrified.

This is a great point.
Also saying schools would "just cope" with extra children really fails to recognise that
A) many state schools are on their knees anyway.
And
B) I'm willing to bet that the govt would find ways to wriggle out of giving them the funding that they needed.

So this could well push the state situation into a much worse position.

Most private school teachers would not go back into state school. I’ve got a friend who left indie for state last year. In the good state school she works in the pupil behaviour is appalling. Friend is now leaving in the summer to return to indie Ed.She is barely managing 1 year in a state school.

In an ideal world there is no reason for indie schools but in reality they serve a purpose.

Removing indie schools will not improve the quality of Ed for all children - anyone who thinks this needs to look at what the real issues are and at the moment the government (any government) cannot afford to address the real issues.

People conflate independent schools with private schools.

Also, the government could spend its entire budget on schools but it still wouldn't stop some being awful places with kids and parents who don't value education and who bully the staff and other pupils. Unless you enforced mixed intake by bussing kids around towns to mix up the demographics, you will get leafy middle class "good schools" and the vaping outside the gate, parents in PJ's schools referred to earlier with all the attendant issues that implies. And please let's not have a lot of pearl clutching about stereotypes...we all know these kinds of schools exist. Some of the most fundamental issues in education are due to social issues that are much much harder for a government to address or influence, so they mask it by tinkering with education or headline grabbing ideas like abolishing private schools. It won't help.

Do not kid yourself that teacher working in classes of 8-12 are going to move into state classes of 30+.
Also private teachers don't need to have QTS. Would you be happy with that too?
A lot of state schools don't have the land to expand but we could change the laws to increase class sizes i guess.
My kids go to private SEN schools and there isn't enough SEN state schools so that's going to be interesting too.

Like the vast majority of kids then. Not a problem.

@Changeau

So who pays for the upkeep of the facilities?

The academy chain I assume, who get money from the govt.

Not sure about the ownership of the buildings as I've never gone into it in that much detail. I was just pointing out to op that the plan would fall down there as the teachers wouldn't necessarily all rush back into the "pot" as it were.

So what would you do about children needing specialist education? There aren't enough special school places now even including those in the independent sector. For children in private special schools, you can't just shove them in a portakabin in the next nearest special school, because they may require a quiet, small school environment, specialist equipment, and staff specialising in their particular type of difficulty.

The only private school teachers that might find the move hard are the unqualified ones, as much fewer state schools employ unqualified teachers.

That's utter nonsense. Any teacher who has worked in a good private school with very bright, well-behaved students and excellent facilities is going to find the move to a state comprehensive hard. I started in a state comprehenive, then worked in an excellent girls' private school. Going back to comprehensives after that was frankly awful, mainly due to behaviour problems. Fortunately I'm now in a lovely girls' grammar. I will never leave until I retire.

I have worked with many colleagues in private and grammar schools who I suspect would would quit teaching rather than go and work in a comprehensive school, and tbh I don't blame them. Let's face it, enough state school teachers are quitting anyway.

This, 100%!

Labour could pretty much have the next election hand delivered on a silver platter but I imagine they will talk themselves out of it. I don't think KS & co want to win and are starting to panic that they actually might 🤣.

@MintJulia you could use the money you save on fees to pay for a nanny/housekeeper, you wouldn't have to give up your job.

@gwrachod
*Not all rich people have power and influence over government, no.

Yes, plenty will just focus on their own local school, not the whole system.

But everyone would be invested in standing against changes that impacted all schools negatively.

And the smaller group of rich people who do have influence - including politicians - would exert it*
Whilst I understand the premise of your argument, I think in practice that banning private schools won't achieve the outcome you want.

Why? Because the state system itself is incredibly unequal and the rich and powerful are always more likely to use their influence to benefit themselves and people like them than the vulnerable or poor, private school or no private school!

I know on MN this will go down like a tonne of bricks but rather than focusing on the 7% of kids in private schools, why aren't we more interested in what is happening in those families, communities and schools that are struggling to offer children any kind of decent education. We all know the schools populated by those without options or without any kind of educational ambition that have terrible outcomes, both in terms of academic achievement and social influences. County lines have often infiltrated these schools and the children there will be lucky to escape these places without getting drawn into crime or being a victim of it.

The middle classes don't really care about this though as it doesn't affect them, instead they prefer to bitch and moan about a small minority that get an even better education than their own fortunate offspring. They would rather take money from the state school system by banning private schools than look to use the money saved by keeping private schools to tackle this inequality. They also absolutely wouldn't consider sending their kids to one of these sink schools to help raise the standards there. Funny that! It seems equality only really matters when they're the one that feels disadvantaged.

Something else the OP is unaware of. Private education is how many single parents manage to keep working.

I have a job that involves travel. I'm a single mum with no backup. If I'm on a business trip or managing a late meeting, my ds(14) stays in the school boarding house for a night or two. Or he has his tea at the boarding house and I can collect him up to 9.30pm.

Remove private schools and that means no more high earning job, losing my PAYE, my skills and my contribution to GDP. We already have a skills shortage in the UK.

Also, I'm late 50s. The govt is adamant that we should keep working. The only reason I'm still working is to pay school fees. If I don't need to pay them I'll retire. Why would I not?

More unintended consequences of an ill-considered idea. More lost revenue for the govt. Thankfully it will never happen.

@newtb not sure what the point if your post was? Outdated stereotypes of what private schools are is deeply unhelpful to the debate. As it is, a vast majority of people who have an opinion on this have absolutely no direct, recent experience of an average private school and have Eton in mind when they talk about "rich" kids and parents. There will never be a sensible debate in this unless people on both sides of it educate themselves about what the schools in question are actually like. ..by which I mean the range if standards and provision in state schools as well as private.

This

So who pays for the upkeep of the facilities?

Dianne Abbott managed to just fine.

This is just jealous-based pure and simple. My four children go to private school. I am left leaning, I am not going to send my child to a failing state school regardless of my political views. If they add VAT to my bill I will pay it. If they close private schools I would probably get a governess and home educate them as state schools are horrendous generally. I don't see how shoving more children into a already over-full and failing system will help anyone. Although I don't see it as us doing "a favour" to state-school families as someone stated up thread. I send them for purely selfish reason. I am paying to give them a privilege and an advantage. Who doesn't give their children the best start they can within their means? I came for a very poor background and would do anything to give my children a better start to life than I had.

@NeedingCoffee I'm sure there many people in that position. but what is the actual polling on this issue? Aren't Labour just in need on centrist votes? Not life long tories.

Most people I know who buy private education work full time and have no time to drive their DC to extra curricular clubs etc. So they pay up to get the whole experience for their DC, not to buy privilege or better grades. So for them private education actually means they work more and pay more tax.

When I was deciding to go for partnership or not vs spend more time with the DC and work 60 per cent I was also making exactly that choice. Send DC to private schools and work all hours vs choose state and supplement myself and drive them around. For many women and men in good careers this is exactly the choice they are making.

I think if government were to provide a private school experience for all children including swimming, sports, high quality music provision (and a good working environment for all teachers) then I think I could get on board with this. However, it is never going to happen. The money isn’t there for all. They are not suddenly going to start spending 13000 a year per child and lower class sizes. That is what it would take. They would also have to have high quality provision for all SEN children at a much higher cost.

OP I disagree

Sometimes treating everyone the same is the most unfair thing to do.

Equity is not created by flat standards.

Practically speaking though wouldn't they just turn them into academies instead of locking the doors and throwing everybody out?
That's what happened to a big private school near us anyway.
So the teachers and pupils get to stay but they have to start admitting non-fee paying children from the local area as well.