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Original poster

To think family court can't be THAT bad?

207 replies

RabbitWarrren · 09/04/2023 17:44

I have gone down a rabbit hole of threads on here and Twitter accounts of women fighting to get their kids back after abusive and/or rich men have got full custody or majority custody. Some truly awful stories

Am I being a total cow to think there must be more to it? Loving, caring, devoted mothers losing their kids to men who have criminal records? Or even just losing their kids entirely to men who never lifted a finger before?

I don't mean that these stories aren't horrific and unjust. But just that it must be something must be more complex for a mum to lose their kids?

Am I being naive? Victim blaming? Is the family court system really that criminal?

OP posts:
Icedlatteplease · 09/04/2023 20:44

Family court made DC have contact with the father who hit them and shoplifted in front of them .

He was a charming man and his family were "pillars of the community" so "of course wouldn't lie". It was DC's word against there's and they were under 5 at the start of the process.

He even got sw's to lie to me for him (heaven only knows what they thought they were doing) when he had to give them information that would have compromised the information he had given the CSA. I knew they were actively living when I got a surreptitious look at one of their notebooks

They did untold harm to my kids for years until he misjudged and actually injured one of them.

Even then Solicitors told me he would still get contact if it went to court

Justdontbejudgy · 09/04/2023 20:27

mumoffourgs · 09/04/2023 20:20

My children begged the school not to send them to their dads house because he punched them. Not for the first time. They had bruises on them.

They told police and social the same thing repeatedly, even once in his house. according to SS notes, my eldest asked the social worker to Go upstairs with her and then in private, to take her home because the Dad told them if they didn't smile enough, he'd make sure they never smiled again.

When the evidence was presented in family court, the judge said he didn't have time to read it and awarded my ex more time. Meanwhile Family Support workers were asking social services to recommend no contact and trauma therapy.

I too thought that people would see. They didn't. Family court, ignored all the evidence in part, because there was too much of it. When I challenged them, the judge genuinely replied "well I think you should bare in mind, that he didn't kill you or the children, so he can't be as big of a risk as presented here".

Academically, the research says that this experience is all too common and all too normal.

So yes it's flawed and damaging, and I found it more traumatic than the rape, and assaults and daily abuse I experienced in the relationship.

I'm not disputing what you are saying, but I can't believe a child would be put in a position where they are physically abused, this is horrifying for them and you. I'm so sorry.
Why would social work not start child protection procedures then in this case where there is risk of harm to the child?

Smoky1107 · 09/04/2023 20:26

I was dragged through the courts. I didn't want my children to be subjected to caffcass so worked with him to agree a solution. Turns out it wasn't worth the paper it was written on and he's never shown up for any of it, smearing at me outside court that he couldn't actually have them as agreed! And hasn't since. Because I agreed to it he's lost the control and power.

Jellyx · 09/04/2023 20:26

Judges need to make decisions that are best for children. Completely removing a child's contact with their parent should be avoided if at all possible. If domestic abuse is alleged then the judge needs to consider if the child can safely have contact with a parent - via a third party handover / supervised contact.

The law directs children have a right to see their children and the parents have a right to see kids. So judges are obligated to sk direct contact if it can be 'safely' done.

mumoffourgs · 09/04/2023 20:20

My children begged the school not to send them to their dads house because he punched them. Not for the first time. They had bruises on them.

They told police and social the same thing repeatedly, even once in his house. according to SS notes, my eldest asked the social worker to Go upstairs with her and then in private, to take her home because the Dad told them if they didn't smile enough, he'd make sure they never smiled again.

When the evidence was presented in family court, the judge said he didn't have time to read it and awarded my ex more time. Meanwhile Family Support workers were asking social services to recommend no contact and trauma therapy.

I too thought that people would see. They didn't. Family court, ignored all the evidence in part, because there was too much of it. When I challenged them, the judge genuinely replied "well I think you should bare in mind, that he didn't kill you or the children, so he can't be as big of a risk as presented here".

Academically, the research says that this experience is all too common and all too normal.

So yes it's flawed and damaging, and I found it more traumatic than the rape, and assaults and daily abuse I experienced in the relationship.

Dancingonthemoonlight · 09/04/2023 20:19

You've obviously never been involved with family court.

Its not so much the judge you have to worry about, they act on what everyone else says, it's CAFCASS that you need to be terrified of, because it's CAFCASS who are the ones who will make a recommendation to the judge and the judge will do exactly what they say.

ChangingUsernamesLikeUnderwear · 09/04/2023 20:17

Interesting article on family courts here by Charlotte Proudman: https://amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2023/mar/29/abusers-family-courts-victims-journalists

Original poster
RabbitWarrren · 09/04/2023 20:15

Fuck @SmokyForTheWin that says it all really. I'm so sorry.

I will be reconsidering my decision to start my separation plan properly. My kids are in no danger or distress whatsoever. How can I justify making their lives so much worse.

OP posts:
MoreSleepPleasee · 09/04/2023 20:15

In the cases I've seen it's always been the best choice. I've seen rich men and mums awarded no or little contact as it's in the best interest of the child. Yanbu there is always more to it.

ChangingUsernamesLikeUnderwear · 09/04/2023 20:14

Nothing in the public sector is perfect, but the rabbit holes on twitter that the OP refers to are posted mostly by deranged conspiracy theorists.

Yeah, I used to think this before I watched a close relative get dragged through the family courts by her abuser and her young DC forced into (unwanted and very damaging) contact with him. I would never have believed the levels of misogyny within the system had I not seen it close up. “Not perfect” doesn’t come close, I’m afraid.

The channel 4 Dispatches programme “Torn Apart: Family Courts Uncovered” is well worth watching.

DarkDarkNight · 09/04/2023 20:07

The tales I have heard that have actually made it to the media, and the appalling stories on this thread tell me otherwise. The problem is it is so secretive we don’t really know what is going on.

Arcadia · 09/04/2023 20:04

Wittow · 09/04/2023 19:55

"many of the CAFCASS officers brought their own prejudices to the job."

very true.... and also why there are so many layers of representation to the process, each party having their own barrister etc. It's important to challenge all these assumptions.

But lots of people don't have barristers or representatives now, due to legal aid being cut so much now, lots of people completely unrepresented.

Wittow · 09/04/2023 19:55

"many of the CAFCASS officers brought their own prejudices to the job."

very true.... and also why there are so many layers of representation to the process, each party having their own barrister etc. It's important to challenge all these assumptions.

Wittow · 09/04/2023 19:52

Anonymouseposter · 09/04/2023 19:45

I worked in a role that brought me into contact with CAFCASS and with people going through the family courts. I saw both men and women treated unfairly and with prejudice, as many of the CAFCASS officers brought their own prejudices to the job.
It isn't at all a easy as a CAFCASS officer can be working with highly manipulative people and with children who are confused and have divided loyalties. I have no faith at all in the system.
Likewise I have great concerns about CAMHS, some good work is done but damage is also done.

Agreed. Nothing in the public sector is perfect, but the rabbit holes on twitter that the OP refers to are posted mostly by deranged conspiracy theorists.

Eggseggseverywhere · 09/04/2023 19:52

Post family court I had ptsd and was anorexic..
Took years to rebuild the relationship with my dc. Never succeeded with 2 sadly..

Brotherlove · 09/04/2023 19:51

I think I may have got lucky with my (female) judge.
She took no crap from ex, demanded explanations from him, refused to give what he demanded, absolutely put the kids first as far as she was able to within the confines of the law.
Cafcass were another matter.....

Omm · 09/04/2023 19:49

It’s that bad and worse

SquidwardSquarepants · 09/04/2023 19:47

This reply has been deleted

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SpringingSpring · 09/04/2023 19:46

I have a friend who has been battling through & with the system for years because of her incredibly abusive ex.

I had faith in the system until I witnessed the frankly absurd decisions that have been made, the trauma for her & her kids continues. Horrendous.

Anonymouseposter · 09/04/2023 19:45

I worked in a role that brought me into contact with CAFCASS and with people going through the family courts. I saw both men and women treated unfairly and with prejudice, as many of the CAFCASS officers brought their own prejudices to the job.
It isn't at all a easy as a CAFCASS officer can be working with highly manipulative people and with children who are confused and have divided loyalties. I have no faith at all in the system.
Likewise I have great concerns about CAMHS, some good work is done but damage is also done.

LpPp · 09/04/2023 19:44

Wittow · 09/04/2023 19:36

There's no way anyone would get away with actual assault in a courtroom.

Family Court is fair, in my professional experience. With children's welfare as the "paramount principle" determining decisions. But, it's not a beauty contest. Good enough parenting is good enough.

Sorry- are you calling me a liar?

People like you are the problem.

LpPp · 09/04/2023 19:42

SmokyForTheWin · 09/04/2023 19:34

If I'd known before I started how bad family court is, I would have stayed unhappily married. Anything is better than this.

I understand that feeling 100%. I had felt like that so many times. We had 4 years of family court trauma before a new social worker stepped in (when doing the section 37) and put a stop to it all. I will be forever grateful to her.

Without my families support I would have gone back. I know I would have, just to stop the trauma of the contact centre. We had to go every 2 weeks for 4 years… and my children NEVER agreed to go (in except that last time) even after being coerced, bullied, threatened, lied to, dragged out of the car.

EnVogue · 09/04/2023 19:40

You clearly are very naive.
I'm 3 years into the family court now. My daughter and I fled under a section 47 via the local authority... Had to leave all our belongings behind and stay in a refuge.. There was a 3 year catalogue of abuse documented by medical records, children's services, police, endless...

First hearing.. Despite Cafcass not recommending any contact in the interim... Judge ignores everything and grants contact in the community with me doing handovers with him via social workers... Fortunately, Cafcass intervened and took the matter back to the judge, contact was allowed to continue but in a contact centre.. We're still here 3 years later.. Just had a psychological report where the psychologist has said all contact should stop as he's so dangerous.. Unfortunately we now also have a Cafcass guardian who continually makes excuses for my ec.. So who even knows what will happen as we approach the end..

HunterHearstHelmsley · 09/04/2023 19:40

In my experience, it's appalling. My friend lost custody of her children to a controlling ex. She had legal aid due to previous domestic abuse. He told so many lies about her. She proved time and again he wasn't telling the truth but he'd come up with something else. It seemed to be believed he had lied umpteen times in the past but this allegation is true.

I would never have believed it if I hadn't witnessed it first hand. My friend felt like giving up so many times, thankfully she galvanised herself.

It has been a few years now and the tide seems to be changing for her but the toll taken on her and the children has been immense.

adriftabroad · 09/04/2023 19:39

I stayed married until DD was 14 because of this. (Spain) Now she can choose.