To think family court can't be THAT bad?

I'd be very interested to know, as a practitioner, and taking into account the fact that court system is so under resourced - what is the main thing that could have been done differently in your cases that would have made you feel differently about the PROCESS? Not necessarily the outcome, because all cases turn on their own facts, but the way you were treated/spoken to by the judge and the court.

My ex slams the door between my face and his new partners if we chat, yet I think she (and her family) still believe I am the awful manipulative one.

His family think the same too, he can't do any wrong in his parents eyes.

That's why I am unconvinced by all the new partners /grandparents posting on here who are so sure the man they are talking about is a picture of innocence being dragged through the court by a manipulative/mentally ill ex. It's almost certain that she was actually the victim of his abuse.

Exactly. My ex moved a new partner in within months of us separating. We're still married since he is prolonging the divorce. She does the majority of care for the children and running around for him. Manipulation at its 'finest'

Forgive me for being skeptical of all these women loyally sure their new partner couldn't possibly have been abusive to his ex and therefore ex must be some horrible manipulative person. (Because he says they are)

I am sure my ex spins that yarn to his new partner (and everyone else he knows too). He was horrifically abusive and endangered mine and my son's life several times.

I wouldn't date a man whose ex accused him of abused, it's far more likely to be true than not.

You summed it up perfectly 👏🏽👏🏽

There needs to be a root and branch overhaul of the system as as it stands currently women and children are at the mercy not only of their abusers but the institutionalised misogyny of judges and cafcass.

I was involved with one case where the father freely admitted to and apologised for raping the mother and physically abusing the daughter but the judge applauded the father for his honesty and called the mother manipulative. Despite countless medical and teachers reports backing the mum.

She was forced into weekly contact with her rapist and the child suffered further physical abuse.

The vast majority of women are not restricting access to be vindicative. Indeed in many years I have never seen it. They are simply trying to protect their children. Contact at all costs is state sanctioned abuse.

I am so sorry for what you have all been through, there are some horrific experiences.

I've experienced the family Court from the perspective of a mother and from my DH perspective (8 court cases combined) and I have noticed a huge difference in the treatment between the sexes. I found in my personal experience that if you are a man, you are automatically an abuser and starting court cases to be malicious. DHs ex is a very good manipulator and regularly turns on the waterworks. She managed to manipulate social workers and psychologists.

Social workers painted my DH to be an abusive monster based on what DSS told them - all of which were lies and I can only guess that his mum coached him to say these things. So due to DSS comments, DH was the bad guy. After 18 months, DH had enough of his sons lies and had serious words with him. DSS then started being more honest but then this was construed as DH alienating his son from mum.

Mum was painted out to be an angel even though DH was the victim of abuse from her. There was even evidence that she physically abused him but all that got brushed under the carpet. There was evidence she had told their son to lie to Police, but again all this was conveniently brushed aside.

In the end, my DH was fighting to keep contact despite not having done anything to warrant that treatment. His legal team advised him to not challenge the psychological report (it was a load of sexist crap) as he could lose contact. Yet, mum was guilty of so much worse, yet her contact was never questioned.

The whole system makes me sick, right from social workers to the court psychologists. From my experience, they support the women at all costs (just what I have observed).

Yes true and there are always going to be exceptions. Those are the cases that make it problematic for those that are genuine. I agree that these cases are not looked at in the right environment. I hope this comes to light in the near future

And I agree the consequences can be devastating. Sadly the system doesn't allow judges to ever find out the consequences. There's nothing in place to keep track of outcomes for the families about whom decisions are made. Not even when a child is removed and adopted. The MOJ follows nothing up. Which I think is horrendous and does not help judges to know if they're doing the right thing.

Well sadly I have met (professionally) lots of mums who don't want a loving co-parenting relationship for their kids because they see that children as 'theirs' and do weaponise children as part of a separation, and who do make false allegations against loving dads who may have, for example, cheated on them (unforgivable from the POV of the adult relationship of course, but not directly related to their children).
And I've met lots of dads who want '50/50' because they see their children as possessions and not human beings.
Court is not the right arena for human relationships. I also do some civil law and it works really well for working out compensation claims and employment disputes and unpaid water bills. It's a blunt instrument for dividing up a child's existence by a stranger whose never met them.

I understand that but I think the question needs to be why? Why are these women restricting access? I think I can speak for many single Mums when I say that we would desire nothing more than to have a healthy coparenting relationship with our children's father's. To have the burden shared and the benefit, for our children, of two loving parents. But that is not our reality. We are trying to protect our children within a flawed system that doesn't have the time to explore our genuine concerns as you mentioned. But these are our lives and our children's lives placed in the hands of strangers. The consequences for our children, if the decisions being made in a place of let's 'hope for the best', are the wrong ones is at best irresponsible and at worst devastating

Yes I absolutely agree that some men use the court as a form of abuse and further means of control.
I think the difficulty is that in the limited time and resources the court has, separating out the control cases from the 'genuine wish to be a dad' cases is quite tricky (understatement) because the majority of mums who end up in the family court (and I use those sex divisions as they are the 'norm' but of course not always) are preventing/restricting contact to an extent, otherwise why would they be there? And so the judge hears the same stories 5,6,7 times a day. Some are true and some are lies. They don't have the resources that the police has for deciding who to charge for a crime. They only have to be satisfied on the balance of probability (ie more than half) about what's true or not. It's a very inexact science done under time pressure.
Not to say that's not shit for the families involved of course.

All very informative 👌🏽 and true that 'no one goes for a fun time' but it has to be highlighted that abusive men do go as a means of pursuing post separation abuse and control to their ex partner. They are not necessarily disappointed that they didn't 'win' the time they desired with the children. If they lose the case they lose the ability to control their ex partner as intended.

I work in the family justice system. There are some brilliant, empathetic, child focused judges and Cafcass officers. There are also some absolutely terrible, misogynistic, uncaring judges and Cafcass officers.
Unfortunately which one you get is an absolute gamble.
It's also fair to say that even the brilliant judges are working with limited resources, for example they may have 8 family hearings in a day and only get the papers that morning, and can only make decisions based on the information that is presented to them - they're not living your lives. They also don't have access to good contact centres, psychological support, therapeutic intervention...all the things that could make contact safe and manageable. If the parents don't suggest it or can't pay for it, they can't order it.
The family court strategy is to get cases out of court as quickly as possible and hope for the best. It's woefully under resourced - that's the government's choice.
I would say that it's important to bear in mind that by it's very nature, the service users of the family court are in conflict and someone always goes away disappointed. Noone goes to family court for a fun time. So the experiences are traumatic by their circumstances. That doesn't mean the system should make it more so, but it does skew the strength of feeling around it.

That sounds terrible. I don't disagree that abusers manipulate the courts. There are problems. All I mean is that a woman has to work hard to have a fair chance at court.

The only good thing is that you can try again. It's still too much of a lottery.

Not in my experience. Abuser denied everything even with evidence and they believed every lie and accusation he made without evidence. Its those who shout the loudest and the courts have an agenda to go with the dads.

F

Definitely no to mediation with an abuser I'm afraid. Same with couples counselling. My friend went through a divorce with a controlling man and he bullied her into settling out of court - he then continued to control her, changed agreements, cut his money to her or didn't pay and she had no come back. My solicitor at the time said the best money you will spend is on a Barrister for this part of the divorce, and she was right. ExH also tried to bully me into settling out of court but I didn't, I stood firm and everything was court ordered. So far, he hasn't reneged on that because there is the threat of criminal proceedings if he does, but I know that isn't always a deterrent unfortunately.

Yes it is bad. You have to be the right sort of woman and you have to be a lot cleverer than just thinking the court will agree with you.

It won't. Don't ever think that your emotion, your worry or your view is going to matter. What matters is hard evidence. Assume that all authority is doing what's easiest for itself; they will grant contact unless you've got a very significant reason and evidence with which Cafcass and Social Services agree.

You need other authority to agree with you to stand a chance. The courts are not about justice for you, they will look at cold hard fact.

What a horrific read. Thanks for sharing your stories. I am disgusted and horrified what you have been through. I have been lucky to have had a decent relationship and my kids are adults now, but life could have been different of course. It’s appalling that vulnerable women and kids are treated this way.

This thread is a deterrent to women who want/need to leave awful men. What a ‘choice’. I am so sorry for those trapped in these relationships.

How dare this system be so abusive.

You agree privately at your peril. With abusive, coercive, selfish, manipulative people- remember they are hardwired to be destructive not constructive- you have to ensure everything is written in blood in a court order… and even then, they continue to play with their toys and will not honour even the binding word of the law.

It’s very difficult to make honourable decisions, arrangements, and agreements with those lacking integrity and a moral compass.

I don't think mediation is the solution when dealing with an abusive ex as there is no reasoning with them. I tried this but he still started court proceedings because I didn't completely agree to his terms.
If you do go through the process it would be helpful to have a barrister that understands the dynamics that have been discussed because the majority are misinformed. I would also recommend support from an IDVA to help navigate the process (where domestic abuse is involved). I don't think there is any easy answer. Agreeing contact arrangements that don't suit the children in order to appease the ex and avoid court isn't the answer either. Until the system is changed and laws reviewed I don't know what is other than to navigate the process with the reality of the system you are up against and as much support as possible.

I've lost all trust in the system but still pursuing an appeal and going through the Cafcass complaints process and I'll confront their failings at any chance I get. It's a tiring battle but one worth fighting.

Would people who have been through this awful process recommend just agreeing to arrangements privately/ in mediation, even with good reasons not to? I'm wondering if I'd be in a better position to support my DC going to contact if I hadn't had to experience family court, in a rock and hard place sort of way.

as I understand it from the statistics we do have almost no men fight for full custody but of the ones that do they are more likely than not to win. There is a big issue with family courts lacking transparency but certainly some judges seem to feel that if a father would want full custody that is strong evidence that the woman is indeed unstable / crazy. At this point there is little a mother can do right to disprove the narrative. If you show emotion you're hysterical and too unstable, if you don't you're cold and unnatural.