for giving DW an ultimatum to cut out her male friend or face separation?

If you already know this, then why ask here when there are 100s of male focused forums to post on?

I'm sorry, OP.
I don't think you are in the wrong. I am white, husband is from a different race but this is not about that. Your wife treats you with disrespect. I would not stay at another man's home alone. Or go for cosy meets. Sends wrong message.

The double standards on here make me sick.

OP, I have very good male friends. However, I'm respectful to a partner I may have. I don't 'drop' my friends but I recognise how my relationships might look to an outsider.

That aside, it also doesn't feel like you distrust your partner, just her friend.

Something to talk about

I’ve been in a controlling coercive relationship with a man and I assumed you would be that type before reading your post but imo your wife doesn’t respect you or your marriage. You don’t have a problem with all male friends (I hope) it’s just that particular one because of what makes you uncomfortable. Which would make anyone uncomfortable. Plenty of threads posted by women and we tell them to LTB. If my husband was behaving like your wife I would not put up with that at all. No bloody way and also, how would your wife feel if you were doing the same? There should never be double standards in a relationship. I also think the comment about not being in the Middle East was below the belt, it’s like she has certain hidden prejudices that I think some posters on here are showing too hence giving you a hard time and nit picking. Unless you are a controlling man and your wife is now ‘rebelling’ as she’s sick of being told what to do I think she is in the wrong but you can’t force her to stop, just consider it the end of the relationship or try marriage counselling. If she’s not happy willing to work through it I’d cut your losses and move on. You’re too different.

You're getting a very hard time because you've said you're a man. If you said you were a woman and had posted the exact same thing, everyone would be saying LTB and that YANBU.

I don't think the fake documents were really a good idea but otherwise you've done nothing wrong. She's showing absolutely zero respect for your relationship. YANBU.

He’s done nothing inappropriate from the sounds of it. He’s just a friend who happens to be male. YABU

Only read your comments OP and totally agree. Your wife's behaviour is appalling and totally disrespectful and you were quite right to give an ultimatum.

I guess by your responses, the MNet brigade are out in force claiming 'controlling and abusive behaviour' all BECAUSE YOU ARE A MAN POSTING. If it were a woman of course the stock response is to lawyer up and contact woman's Aid. Totally double standards and one of the very reasons I'm almost done with this forum, where it seems males are always to blame, yet women, (particularly OW) are merely poor innocent parties to behave and trample on others in any way they see fit....unfortunately as your wife is doing to you. Are you sure she's not a member of MN?

I can sense your frustration in your post but by your wife's response, sadly her priorities are anywhere else but on you and the marriage so I wouldn't waste another minute on her. You can't and shouldn't be trying to control her. You can only control your response to her shitty behaviour. I'd also suggest doing the 360°, grey rock approach for your own sanity.

You say very little about your finances and work situation, but I'd start getting your ducks in a row, relevant paperwork together and seek the services of a good divorce lawyer to protect your assets.

I'd suggest seeking support from these organisations:
https://mensadviceline.org.uk/
https://www.mensaid.co.uk/
https://www.mankind.org.uk/

Good luck OP and all the best.

Read further down the post.

Race has no part in my response:

I voted yabu.

You've handled this really badly.

Fine to say her friend had crossed boundaries in giving her a quick shoulder massage, but you're assuming your wife will cheat simply because he has said he's relaxed about adultery.

That's a pretty sexist way of looking at things. With the attitude you've displayed, and the controlling tendencies you're showing (booking a hotel is to attempt to take the choice away from her), I can completely understand why your wife has reacted the way she has and in her shoes I'd have probably reacted the same.

(Before you jump on me, I've never so much as looked at another man when I've been in a relationship, while having close male friends).

If this bloke does try anything then your wife is perfectly capable of shutting him down.

Your handling of this whole matter has been to disregard a long standing friendship, behave in a controlling and coercive manner and distrust your wife for no other reason than you dislike her friend.

I would say exactly the same if the gender were reversed, too.

However, having said that, I appreciate and understand that you feel this man behaves inappropriately towards your wife and you're entitled to feel that a stronger boundary needs to be in place.

If you'd spoken to your wife as an equal about this, respecting her own autonomy and judgement you would probably have found she'd have been much more empathetic and been happier to put distance between herself and her friend for the sake of your relationship. Instead, you've behaved as she has no control and is guilty by association. You haven't shown her any trust whatsoever.

Regardless of the motivation, your behavior has been coercive and so you have forced her not to choose between you and him, but to choose between your control and her independence. Of course she's asserting that.

Regarding race, if you don't want posters to refer to it then don't mention it in the first place. You said it was relevant but failed to explain exactly how. Personally, I don't think it is from what youve said. Ultimately, you're uncomfortable with a friendship she has and would like her to put distance between them - if you'd approached it differently instead of "laying down the law" each time, the outcome would have been very different, I'm sure.

You said your Christian, which would lead posters to infer a rigid morality and social codes, yet in later posts say you attend church for high holidays only...Like most people in the UK who are nominally 'Christian' then, so how is it relevant?

You both need to examine your behaviours, here.

sounds controlling. let her have him and when you move on drop the control act.

He says the friend and his wife have known one another ‘5+ years’. Which could mean anything.

You don't mention children together.

If you don't have any, quite honestly; I would get rid of her.

I'm sure you can find a more appropriate acting, loyal, trustworthy woman to make the mother of your kids.

If you do have kids .... I'd be more inclined to try to work it out but there are still a lot of issues there.

In the first post he says they’ve been dating 6 years and she’s known the friend 5…

I think you could possibly have handled things better.

With the shoulder massage, why didn't you just say something when it was happening? Just "Excuse me DW, let me do that for you", and take over from him, then once you were alone with DW explain to her that you were uncomfortable with the physical intimacy of her friend massaging her and you would prefer that this didn't happen again. That would have been entirely reasonable request from anyone's partner.

With regard to the friend speaking about adultery and thinking it's acceptable, have you never, when he's talked about it, said something like "Well, DW and I certainly don't feel that cheating in a marriage is defensible, isn't that right, DW?" Have you spoken to your DW privately about your concerns that he is trying to entice her into an affair? Has your DW ever given you any indication that she might cheat (either with this friend or with anyone else?), do you trust her?

I suspect that if you had made your feelings on the massage and adultery clear at the time, and your DW had understood and accepted your point of view, it would have been unlikely that she would have decided to sleep at her friend's house when she was locked out, as she would have known it would hurt you. If she would have gone ahead with a full understanding of your discomfort, then I totally accept that her behaviour in this instance we unacceptable.

Your DW announcing your history of a disease to dinner party guests is inexcusable in my eyes, I completely understand why you'd be upset by this.

However, I think that issuing an ultimatum to your DW over her friendship is a dangerous game. The faking of documents to show her you're already making plans to move on feels very calculated and a bit coercive. I think the better way to handle this is to be completely transparent about your feelings here - admit that he makes you jealous, you are worried that he will rip apart your marriage. Explain to your DW truthfully how all of these instances have added up to make you feel very insecure about her spending time alone with him.

You need to be able to trust one another in a marriage, and that means that if she wants to remain friends with someone who makes you uncomfortable, then perhaps the three of you need sit down together and calmly talk about the situation. Remember that this man can't force your wife to commit adultery, it would be up to her to choose to do so, so it's up to you to decide whether you trust her to remain faithful, no matter who she chooses to be friends with. The problem is that issuing an ultimatum about your DW's friendships will come across as controlling, and if she acquiesces this time, she'll wonder if you're going to do it again.

In your shoes, I'd retract the ultimatum, apologise for issuing it, explain how upset/jealous etc. you feel and exactly why, then work together to see what you can do as a couple to help mitigate these feelings, without you feeling you need to control who your DW is friends with.

Sorry - that was long! Also, I don't think anyone was being racist, I think the skin colour of each of the people in your OP is only significant to you - it certainly hasn't affected how I have responded.

The friend has been in her life far longer than you, and will outlast you by the sound of things.

Your discomfort with this relationship is fair and reasonable. They are blurring boundaries and being disrespectful to you and the relationship you share with her.
The fact that she won't let it go despite your reasonable concerns suggests their connection is more important than her wish to reassure you and personally I think this is a huge issue.
You could look up livingwithlimerance.com I think it might answer a lot of your questions. The fire can be fuelled by the 'can't have you' element.

You have a wife problem.

It is absolutely fine for her to have a close male friendship.

What is not fine is how you’ve expressed your concerns and she is still carrying on being inappropriate.

It is of course not appropriate that he gives her back rubs and she spends the night as his.
If this was you spending the night at a woman’s house against your wife’s wishes all the posters would be telling her you’re a cheat.

I think an ultimatum was your only choice but don’t be surprised if she chooses this friend and then acts like you’re the unreasonable one.

Yes! Exactly! Because we must allow our spouses to have inappropriate relationships with people, to have them massage each other right in front of us and stay at each others houses even when we’ve said it makes us uncomfortable.

🙄

You sound awful. Quite misogynistic. Get over it.

It sounds like your marriage is over.

She is either about to or having some type of affair.

You're being a bit controlling plus neglecting your wife because of your messed up sister.

Just see a solicitor soon and file for a divorce. I don't see this improving.

The problem here is that you and your wife are disconnected. You have told her that her friendship seems inappropriate and it makes you uncomfortable, but she spent the night at his house anyway. On the other hand you are using emotional blackmail and fake housing documents, that is controlling and childish, when really you should be seeking to rediscover the connection and love that originally led you to marry, not trying to manipulate her.

I suggest you both attend marriage counselling to discover - together - whether you both want to save this marriage or prefer it to end.

To oversimplify:

• She thinks she can do whatever she wants with whoever she wants without hurting you, and that isn’t true.
• You think she should do what you tell her to do, and that isn’t true either.

You both need to agree together what the expectations in this marriage are so that you can both be happy.

I think the OP would have a lot more support if he hadn't gone in all guns blazing with ultimatums and manipulative behaviour. He lost the moral argument when he behaved this way.

He should have shared his concerns like an adult and asked for some reasonable boundaries. If she then continued to behave in a similar way, knowing OP's feelings, then she would be entirely unreasonable.

Neither side is 100% reasonable. However, no one should give in to an ultimatum. The marriage will never recover from the resentment either side.