Page 6 | Who was PM during the best of times for you?

verdantverdure · 2023-03-29T21:44:26+00:00

Me? Blair. Brown, first bit of Cameron. On paper I earn more money now but everything's tits up isn't it? From the economy to shit on beaches to being able to get access to the NHS when needed.

SymbolicSymbals · 29/09/2023 19:34

Probably the current lot if we’re basing it on job and earnings, although I think that’s in spite of them not because of them. From a personal perspective, definitely Blair. Everything seemed so good and optimistic back then. Maybe that was my age!

Original poster

verdantverdure · 29/09/2023 19:26

EffortlessDesmond · 29/09/2023 15:34

It was a robust debate, and Major did call the anti-EU element bastards, but he had most of the really big beasts in his camp, including Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine.

Both France and Ireland voted against further integration in the early 1990s, and needed quite a bit of coaxing. The UK should also have had a referendum on Maastricht at the time and I still think that failure broadened the spearhead of the ERG and their co-combatants.

I enjoyed this quote:

"Calling three of my colleagues, or a number of my colleagues, 'bastards' was absolutely unforgivable. My only excuse is that it was true."

OP posts:

Ladyj84 · 29/09/2023 15:40

None there all fales promises and lies

EffortlessDesmond · 29/09/2023 15:34

It was a robust debate, and Major did call the anti-EU element bastards, but he had most of the really big beasts in his camp, including Ken Clarke and Michael Heseltine.

Both France and Ireland voted against further integration in the early 1990s, and needed quite a bit of coaxing. The UK should also have had a referendum on Maastricht at the time and I still think that failure broadened the spearhead of the ERG and their co-combatants.

Original poster

verdantverdure · 29/09/2023 12:09

EffortlessDesmond · 28/09/2023 21:36

@verdantverdure , please see one post above. No, I don't think Major was at war with ideologues then. There was a furious debate at the time of Maastricht over whether the EEC moved toward political and financial union (the euro) or remained a customs and trading union with cultural exchanges and freedoms to retire or work within the EC. France and Ireland had referenda, two apiece IIRC, before deciding, and Major refused one in the UK. It was mass movement into the original member states from the former Iron Curtain countries that lit the economic blue touch paper.

I don't remember it like that.

I just remember "The Bastards" screwing over their own party, just like they are now.

https://www.theoldie.co.uk/article/beaten-by-the-bastards

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/amp/entry/john-major-european-union-conservative-party nn_4142916/

https://www.taxresearch.org.uk/Blog/2023/05/14/the-bastards-have-always-done-for-the-tories/

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/1993/jul/25/politicalnews.uk

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-news-alastair-campbell-on-the-brexit-trade-deal-6872054/

OP posts:

EffortlessDesmond · 28/09/2023 21:45

And if I may trespass further on your attention, a lot of the migration worked well in both directions for many years, at roughly even numbers in and out. A great many British people retired to sunnier climates and renovated properties in depopulating villages and small towns in rural France and Spain where the local population were leaving for better job prospects in cities or other countries, including the UK. The costs of employing (and shedding) staff in much of N Europe has been a brake on employment rates. Youth unemployment in most of S Europe is still running at above 25%.

EffortlessDesmond · 28/09/2023 21:36

@verdantverdure , please see one post above. No, I don't think Major was at war with ideologues then. There was a furious debate at the time of Maastricht over whether the EEC moved toward political and financial union (the euro) or remained a customs and trading union with cultural exchanges and freedoms to retire or work within the EC. France and Ireland had referenda, two apiece IIRC, before deciding, and Major refused one in the UK. It was mass movement into the original member states from the former Iron Curtain countries that lit the economic blue touch paper.

EffortlessDesmond · 28/09/2023 21:20

The mass accession of eastern European countries in 2005 was a game changer. Blair's government underestimated the pull factor and didn't use the option to limit numbers at all, so people flooded into the UK to earn better, and suppressed local earnings... to the delight of folk who wanted cheap nannies, cleaners and builders. And that was a much more important influence on the outcome of the 2016 referendum than is usually acknowledged inside the M25.

But yes, the Tories were fatally split between those who were Team Europe (generally a bit older, with war memories) and those representing constituencies that were hit very hard by a wave of cheap, fairly unskilled labour.

Original poster

verdantverdure · 28/09/2023 11:40

EffortlessDesmond · 05/09/2023 17:23

I think I would give John Major more credit.

The government he led, against expectations, rowed back from the Lawson boom and ERM crash, and left Tony Blair positioned financially to fulfil much of his manifesto. It was politically and economically painful at the time with massive mortgage rates plus a frightening level of job losses and home repossessions. But to give him his due, he stood his ground and sacrificed personal popularity in service of the one nation while getting on (mostly) quite well with Brussels.

Wasn't he always doing battle against the ideological wing of the Tory party that has now been in charge of it since Brexit?

"The Bastards"

OP posts:

Timesawastin · 05/09/2023 17:30

EffortlessDesmond · 05/09/2023 17:23

I think I would give John Major more credit.

The government he led, against expectations, rowed back from the Lawson boom and ERM crash, and left Tony Blair positioned financially to fulfil much of his manifesto. It was politically and economically painful at the time with massive mortgage rates plus a frightening level of job losses and home repossessions. But to give him his due, he stood his ground and sacrificed personal popularity in service of the one nation while getting on (mostly) quite well with Brussels.

Yes, agreed.

Kimten · 05/09/2023 17:25

Tony Blair

EffortlessDesmond · 05/09/2023 17:23

I think I would give John Major more credit.

The government he led, against expectations, rowed back from the Lawson boom and ERM crash, and left Tony Blair positioned financially to fulfil much of his manifesto. It was politically and economically painful at the time with massive mortgage rates plus a frightening level of job losses and home repossessions. But to give him his due, he stood his ground and sacrificed personal popularity in service of the one nation while getting on (mostly) quite well with Brussels.

Blueeyedmale · 05/09/2023 16:54

Tony Blair money into education, NHS crime was falling yes I know we spend millions on an unjust war,but that aside I think they were our best times,I hope those times come back because when you see a single mum or dad going without food so their children can eat or an old person sitting on their own inside a cold flat in the winter that is not acceptable in 2023!

Original poster

verdantverdure · 05/09/2023 16:43

OceanicBoundlessness · 05/09/2023 16:36

John major. I've just checked and hadn't realised her was prime minister for so long.

I was the last cohort to get my degree for free.

Wow. That's a proper "end of an era" moment.

OP posts:

OceanicBoundlessness · 05/09/2023 16:36

John major. I've just checked and hadn't realised her was prime minister for so long.

I was the last cohort to get my degree for free.

Howpo · 05/09/2023 16:03

verdantverdure · 05/09/2023 01:15

It was the Labour Government under Blair that introduced tuition fees ...

Yes, some students had to pay up to £1000 a year so if you were one of the ones who had to pay, a degree could cost you as much as £3000!

Yes friends of mine in France, pay around 1000 euros, i think in Germany, they pay nothing at all.

We are supposed to be wealthier than both France and Italy....

In Italy, average undergraduate programmes at public institutions can cost between €900 (~US$1,000) and €4,000 (~US$4,800) per year, with the average being approximately €1,500 (~US$1,800)

Original poster

verdantverdure · 05/09/2023 01:15

It was the Labour Government under Blair that introduced tuition fees ...

Yes, some students had to pay up to £1000 a year so if you were one of the ones who had to pay, a degree could cost you as much as £3000!

OP posts:

DameCurlyBassey · 04/09/2023 22:06

Tony Blair.

x2boys · 04/09/2023 22:03

Dogandbabymama · 04/09/2023 21:33

Blair. I managed to get into Oxbridge and didn’t have to pay tuition fees (means tested). Could never afford to do it now. Miss those times..

It was the Labour Government under Blair that introduced tuition fees ...

Dogandbabymama · 04/09/2023 21:33

Blair. I managed to get into Oxbridge and didn’t have to pay tuition fees (means tested). Could never afford to do it now. Miss those times..

ArseInTheCoOpWindow · 04/09/2023 21:23

Blair/Brown.

Great time to live. So much help and support. I worked in a school, there was money for equipment and support staff everywhere.

I left teaching 4 years ago. It was dire by then.

Aserena · 04/09/2023 21:21

BluebellBlueballs · 27/05/2023 17:47

Blair.

I was too young to know the late 90s/ early 00s were not representative of how it would always be. I would appreciate them so much more now.

Absolutely, I agree with you.

Original poster

verdantverdure · 04/09/2023 21:21

Aserena · 04/09/2023 21:19

Blair.
His foreign policy was pants, but his home policy was excellent. I was fortunate to be growing up in the late 90s and early 00s.
Brown was good too, I’d rank them:

Blair
Brown
Cameron
May
Major
Sunak
Johnson
Thatcher

(Truss doesn’t count).

Please tell our mortgage companies that Truss doesn't count.

OP posts:

Aserena · 04/09/2023 21:19

Blair.
His foreign policy was pants, but his home policy was excellent. I was fortunate to be growing up in the late 90s and early 00s.
Brown was good too, I’d rank them:

Blair
Brown
Cameron
May
Major
Sunak
Johnson
Thatcher

(Truss doesn’t count).

Timesawastin · 04/09/2023 21:16

Thatcher. Never voted for her but a particular initiative of hers meant that I and my family survived. And you can have a go all you bloody like.