AIBU to think rape is now legal in the UK?

None of this comes under TBF. If things were fair and right rapists would pay. Victims would get justice.

To be fair, it's the same everywhere. In Sweden they've recently let off a man as the girl he had fingered (I think she's 10, so very young and definitely not in any way, shape or form consensual) had essentially said he put his finger in her noonie, which apparently is very ambiguous as he possibly didn't penetrate her as noonie could be either vulva or vagina. So benefit of the doubt etc... 🤯 Absolutely disgraceful

There's so much we could do, if we approached it from a lens of reducing rape rather than a lens of protecting men from "false accusations"
Personally I'm very happy labour are focusing on this. That means more to me as a feminist than "knowing what a woman is"

You could have special courts with three trained judges rather than a jury. You could actually process rape kits in a timely way.
Ooh yes I forgot this one.
You could have an inquisitorial process rather than an adversarial one. Seek the facts and make a judgement, rather than "innocent" ot "guilty"

2018 figures:

Out of 100 reported rapes, 35 are dropped due to victim not supporting action. 60 are halted by police, 5 are passed to CPS, who prosecute 2 and convict 1.

Of the 60 halted by police, some will be because the perpetrators can not be identified and some identified perpetrators can not be traced, a few will be charged with other offences, but most will have no prospect of conviction.

The latest 1.6% figure is shocking, but the figure is only 5.6% for all reported crime, and rape is notoriously hard to distinguish from legal sexual activity.

Attitudes are so deeply ingrained. When Sarah Everard was killed a man I work with said 'Why was she out on her own at night?'

And the 'it's so difficult' line doesn't work when other countries manage so much better.

I wonder how other countries handle it better and what we could copy from them?

I do think pp point about the victim's past being used against her but a jury not being allowed to hear about the accused's past actual or accused crimes is appalling.

That's awful TwittleBee💐

And the 'it's so difficult' line doesn't work when other countries manage so much better.

I really hate this line of thinking. False accusations of rape are so rare they are barely worth mentioning yet every time it’s discussed this is what we get

tbh the way rape victims are treated by the police, any woman who does this needs some kind of mental health intervention.

There's few things lower than a rapist but the minority of women who make false accusations and lie about rape really don't help women.

I really hate this line of thinking. False accusations of rape are so rare they are barely worth mentioning yet every time it’s discussed this is what we get. Nobody starts with initial doubts if someone claims theft or burglary, even though people do lie to make fraudulent insurance claims. Nobody says ‘the minority of people who lie about being stolen from doesn’t help victims’.

You could have special courts with three trained judges rather than a jury. You could actually process rape kits in a timely way.

There are sooooooooo many thinks you could do.

The first of which is require actual consent. Not "I'm the kind of man who thinks a drunk women who doesn't push me off is good enough". Actual consent.

What's to be done?

1. get rid of "reasonable belief of consent" and make men detail what they did to get consent instead of whether they just believed they did (I mean seriously. Can you imagine if it was tax? "I reasonably believed I didn't have to pay because I asked my mate and he said i didn't)

2. Introduce a "lesser" crime of reckless penetration so that men can still be prosecuted of a crime if consent is not clear cut. It gives juries an option beyond "ruining an innocent man's life" by branding him a rapist.

3. enforce the "capacity" aspect properly - if a victim was over a certain drink level/drugged they were not capable of consent and so its either rape or reckless penetration

4. don't allow admission of evidence of victims sexual history. Previous convictions and other evidence (WhatsApp etc) are barred all the time in case it prejudices the defendants case. The same should be true for the victim.

5. certain things should not be allowed as defence- "she liked rough sex" being one of them

It should be legal for women to carry weapons to deter attacks and defend themselves.

Obviously not legalised but clearly minimised and allowed to go unpunished...

Truly appalling situation.

I did not report my assault because I know full well there is zero chance of the perpetrator being convicted as I knew him and initially agreed to date him. I could picture what would happen in court (if it even got that far...) and knew it would be his word against mine that consent had been withdrawn.

As a society If we continue not to be willing to seriously address toxic masculinity/entitlement, sexism and misogyny that teach men that women are just on this earth to serve and please them and take rape seriously as a crime, men will continue to assault women and get away with it.

To all of those who insist it's so hard to prove. Yes. Often it is. We live in a culture that on the one hand pretends to want women to be free and safe and on the other blames them when they don't take on the full and onerous burden of making themselves safe at all times. That is, you're doing it wrong if you get drunk, if you dress "incorrectly", if you're out late alone, if, if, if.

Things were even more openly judgemental in the 1980s and rape no easier to prove and yet the conviction rate was higher. We are clearly facing a crisis or slap bang in the middle of one. Why are we allegedly more open to women's rights to safety in the 21st century but worse at convicting rapists than we were in the hugely sexist 80s? Why have better procedures lead to conviction rates falling decade by decade.

. So of course phone records are invaluable in establishing previous contact if any, and the nature.

is the accused rapist's phone also confiscated?

tbh in the UK I'd probably not bother reporting a rape either

@Hellsmovie properly functioning police, forensics and justice system would definitely help.

It's terrible that women have to feel unsafe in society, and that figures are that low.
Part of the problem are the women who make up rape allegations - it means that less serious attention is given when needed.

Be angry at rapists (as we all are) and also at those who 'cry wolf' and make the rest of women less likely to be heard when it does happen.

@TwittleBee I'm so sorry that you had to endure all of that and thank you for sharing because what you've told us belies the notion that it's so hard to prove. Sometimes it can be but your horrible experience was not hard to prove but it went nowhere. You're not part of the statistics because it was taken out of your hands. It's bloody outrageous.

@TwittleBee I'm sorry that happened, in my head, those circumstances should be more than enough for conviction.
You only have to look at the Ched Evans case to see how rape cases are treated in the legal system.
Women have been let down massively by the legal system.

Anything constructive to say on that?

@Hellsmovie I wasn't having a go at you.

Women need to know before it happens, that if it happens, it's not their fault.
Women carry no blame if they are raped.
Women carry no shame if they are raped.
Women need to know that if they are raped, they call the police straight away and they will be believed.
Women need to know that the police will do everything possible from the minute they call to gather evidence for a prosecution.
Sadly, Women need to know ahead of any rape occurring that any evidence will be on their clothes and body and need to be preserved.
Women should be able to get a fast prosecution, they should not have to face the perpetrator in court.

It doesn't matter what you are wearing, how much you've had to drink (except intoxicated when the law should be unable to consent) or if you've previously slept with an entire football team. These arguments have no place in a court of law.

Right now, as a society, "men should stop raping", should be the ideal, we have a long way to go to get there.

Maybe we need to start a rapeline along the lines of childlike where women can get support through the process. Who can advise from when women first call until the outcome of a trial? Who can get the message into schools so young women feel empowered to speak and young men taught consequences.

There's few things lower than a rapist but the minority of women who make false accusations and lie about rape really don't help women.

Any man (including your loved ones) could be accused of rape at any time. The burden of proof ends up falling on the accuser because everyone has the right to a fair trial.

Voting for Tory governments who cut policing and courts don't help either.