To wonder about CSEs v O Levels

IIRC a CSE1 is not equivalent to an O level C.

The blurb on the back of the certificate states something along the lines of if you got a CSE1 then you might reasonably have been expected to get a pass (Grade A,B or C) if you had undertaken the O level. It does not say that a CSE1=Grade C.

This makes sense, because if you say got 100% mark at CSE1, then there is no information to actually discriminate what grade O level you would have got.

Oh and to answer the Ops question the answer is it depends. 6 CSE grade 1s would have been well above average (but unlikely as anyone getting that many would have been horribly mis streamed. Anyone getting a CSE1 should really have sat an O level).

I would say your partners brother was above average academically. I say this because his results were above average (slightly). But the situation in which he was sitting these exams was clearly from a seriously disadvantaged starting point.

So would that be equivalent to a grade 1/2 in today's exams roughly?
I did my GCSE,s in 1990and got mainly C,s and D,s I was fairly average academically, I probably could have tried harder and pushed the grades up to mainly C,s

If he got decent CSEs, not below average no, but in those days unlikely to go to Uni, not considerEd "academic".

At my, not especially good secondary, we had 8 sets and only the top one did Olevels. Some people in set 2 did both, with the CSE being insurance for if they didn't make it though the Olevel.

A CSE grade 1 was supposed to be equivalent to an Olevel C, but no-one really believed it.

I did Olevel and CSE in maths and did the entire CSE paper twice in the time allowed.

I also remember being told just before sitting our exams that the national average was 5 grade 4 CSE’s

My sister, 3 years younger was the first year of GCSEs. I took a School’s Council 16+ in history which was them testing out the planned GCSEs. I received both an O-level grade B and a CSE grade 1 which was based on both coursework and 2 exams.

I took mainly O-levels, although I had to fight to be allowed to take O-level music rather than CSE (the school had never had a music O-level failure!). I took CSE French, I was in a stream that mainly took O-level French, but my grammar was poor, whilst my speaking was above average, so they were confident I would achieve grade 1 CSE but not confident about a C at O-level.

Academic ability if measured by exams, then yes, it's probably a bit lower than average. Now nearly anyone will be pushed towards the uni route if they have a slim chance of passing the minimum number of GCSEs. This isn't right, as lots of jobs don't need that type of education or it doesn't suit people. Plus tons of debt.
As long as they've managed alright in life and worked then that's all that matters. If they want to study further, then it's never too late.

I went to a private girls' school. Snobbery and status meant we were all entered for 9 O'Levels. Compulsory subjects were all three sciences, two English, French, RE, and History. My chosen options were Cookery and Art. It was far too much. I gained 2 C's and 7 D's. Education was a dark art, I took my Maths using a f**king Slide Rule. This was 1980

@Bakance When GCSEs were introduced, grades 2-5 CSE were equivalent of D-G in GCSE grades. Only grade 1 CSE was a Grade C GCSE. So below grade 1 was a lower grade GCSE equivalent. In numbers it would now be grades 4-1. Grade 1 CSE could be considered a 5 in GCSE grading.

There’s plenty of info on how GCSE replaced the two exams. However anyone with CSEs generally would not do A levels. However there are other routes to HE.

My grammar didn’t do CSE. Nor my husband’s grammar. I’m not aware of any that did around here. This did lead to under achievement at the grammars too!

Yes i agree about different exam boards and syllabi, they could vary wildly between schools. I moved very frequently and it was absolutely expected to lose a subject with each move.

My school was doing a trial exam called 16+ in the mid 80s which went A, B, C, 2, 3, 4, 5. Only in French though. The other subjects were O Levels and CSEs. It was quite a big deal to get an A at O Level.

I know this is an old thread, that I have already commented on, but very roughly O Level = GCSE hard paper, CSE = easy paper, but even when I left school in 1987, it was expected that a few people would leave without qualifications.

I was the last to do CSEs, as i left school in 1987. I almost feel they arnt worth the paper they were written on really. Approx only 10% of pupils were entered for O levels. Wish i could have tried the GCSEs instead.

I left in 1979 and I was 15. I was one of the youngest in the year with a July birthday and it was three weeks before I was 16. I took a mix of O levels and CSEs.

The last year the leaving age was 15 was in 1971, so you'd need to be 67 at the youngest to have left at 15. O levels were graded 1-9 with grades 7-9 being fails, not passes.
I can remember 2 or 3 in my year getting 9 grade 1s, and then going on to get 4 or 5 As at A level, including General Studies, which wasn't a soft option. Everyone did 2 foreign languages, and at least 1 science.

Yup. I ended up with CSE grade 1 Maths - enough to get me to Grammar to do A levels. But when I applied to Edinburgh Uni in 1990 as a "mature student' (aged all of 20) I had to sit a Maths entrance exam as they were not impressed with CSE grade 1 vs O level grade C.

@Violinist64 I took O levels a year before you, in 1980, and my recollection is the same as yours.

At my girls' grammar school it was all O levels, CSEs were not an option at all, whereas at the secondary modern it was the exact opposite.

Off the point, but I found my mother's O level certificate recently. She was part of the very first year to do O levels (at the same grammar I later went to) and she took and passed 5 of them. No grades were on the certificate, it seemed to be just pass or fail. She didn't have the option of A levels unfortunately, had to leave and get a job.

It was. I was 'borderline' on my 'Kent Test' so my parents were asked whether they wanted me to go to the Grammar or Comprehensive school. They chose the Comp. It was a zoo & the bullying of any kid who wanted to study was relentless. We were all entered for CSEs as 'factory fodder' (this is how our teachers referred to us, on a good day). I paid to sit dual exams in some subjects so I could try to join the Grammar 6th Form. I particularly remember an O level Biology Qu: ' what is the function of deoxyribonucleic acid'. The CSE paper asked me: 'which organ pumps blood around the body'. I wasn't the only one held back by CSEs (at that point).

I did O levels and had to dig out all the certificates a few months ago for a job application, so some people definitely do still care!

We had 2 streams when I did my exams in 1981 . X stream sat O levels and Y stream sat CSEs. Some of us did an O level or two a year early and did an extra CSE in the remaining year. Sometimes people would be entered for both if the teacher felt they were a bit borderline. I did both in music, but the O level was more academic while the CSE had coursework and a performance element.
All seems like ancient history now

Yes we had exactly this too. Top two forms all did O levels, middle one a mixture and bottom two did CSEs although me and one otter took a mixture. There was very much a snooty air amongst the two top forms. Hated it. And bottom two forms had ALL the trouble makers.

Anyone remember 'joint' exams? Might have been mentioned by PP. I was good at English, later getting A levels in English literature and English language at evening classes, but because I was in second to bottom form class was put in for 'joint'. I still don't understand why and the most I could get in the O level was a C.

As per this thread CSE grade 1 was 'evidently the equivalent of a 'C' at 'O' level. Except it wasn't really, it was simply the highest you could get at CSE.

CSE grade 2 and 3 were never said to be 'fails' like a D or E at 'O' level.

The sad thing is that I remember being 'set' from year 1 (7) and it being rare anyone moved. At my school we set in 'houses' and 'colours' it was known that being in a 'colour' meant you weren't very bright. I can remember being scared I would be set in a 'colour' band.

Also, O levels were graded A-E, but only grades A-C were passes. D and E were failure. U was below all the grades and stood for Unclassified.

Also at my grammar school there were 5 forms in each year. Forms 1 and 2 were for the 'brightest students' and they had to study French as well as Spanish or German and Latin. Form 3 was for 'middle' students who studied French as well as Spanish or German. Forms 4 and 5 were for the 'less able' students who studied French and either cookery or needlework. Very bad when you think about it and they wouldn't get away with doing that today!

Definite difference between CSEs and GCSEs, weren't allowed to do CSEs at my 1970s grammar as they were considered too 'lowly'; so I failed O-level maths.

Things were really a lot different back then, there wasn't so much emphasis on academic ability being the whole banana; good jobs could still be gained in various industries.

And having successfully been to Uni and studied postgrad myself I am more than comfortable with stating that it is not the great 'par excellance' it cracks up to be; quite the opposite as academics is quite narrow in how it produces new ideas, and very good at making fictions into truths, if they're 'published' they can be used, if they're not 'published' than any idea is unuseable.