To think a lot of posts on this social services Facebook group can’t be entirely truthful?

part of the problem is the lack of right to reply. Social workers cannot comment on cases, they cannot breach confidentiality. So there is only ever one side out there.
dont mistake that as me blindly defending all social workers, some will always be better than others. They can never put their side or the sides of the child across in social media.

I think the term "messy house" probably means different things to different people. Toys on floor, washing not put away and last night's dinner plate not washed up is my idea of messy. Pretty sure ss don't remove kids living in a house like that.

@ApiratesaysYarrr this was about 11 years ago now, in a much better place thanks! Never had any involvement with SS after that and I went on to have a much healthier relationship and third child. Tbh the hardest thing to do was admit I was failing my children. I knew beyond a doubt I was a wreck myself but I thought because my children were fed and loved that’s what mattered. I spent my childhood depressed and unloved and hating myself so to me the way I was feeling and living as an adult was normal. It was exceptionally painful to admit it wasn’t good for my children and just as hard to realise that my own childhood was wrong on so many levels. Lots of counselling and support got me through it, but if at the time I’d had people like the above poster saying it was because I had a low IQ and poor education it is very likely I’d have outright rejected the support for fear of judgement and ended up the same as those posters on FB.

I think this subject is interesting as it’s so emotive.
Obviously, I can see why parents will lie and downplay issues/ can’t understand the issues.
I also know the SS are vital and have helped parents and children.

But the thing that is more interesting is the way people ,without experience of SS, will deny there may be problems or seem invested in defending the system.

I wonder if that comes from a place of wanting to feel safe. For example, if the system that I’m in is broken and may be unfair then this could happen to me.

However, if the system is good and the people who are investigated are ‘bad/toxic/ low intelligence’ then I’m not those things so me and my family are safe.

I do also wonder about Pp whose husband is a social worker and social services left them alone. Hmmm.
I know someone whose house is really dirty, has severe mental health issues and regular visits from crisis teams. Two children in the house.
This person was employed in a high position and retains their title, and the spouse still work for government in a very respectable role.
At no point have social services been called in for even a visit. I do not believe this would have been the case if the couple were cleaners on benefits.

To believe a group of humans employed in such an important and powerful role are without bias or their own damage is dangerous.

I have no axe to grind, have never had any personal involvement with SS.

I also understand what people are saying about the checks and balances in place.

However, we all know some people are more equal than others. Systems can fail and corruption, or simply lethargy, can spread along a command chain very easily.

I think neglect is quite common and because it is a passive form of abuse, some parents don’t think it is a problem.

Have name changed for this post as possibly outing.

I can well believe some of these stories. I’ve been on the wrong side of social services.
They made a mistake that escalated into our child being in foster care for 6 months and it was sinister the way they closed ranks, refused to talk, kept awful (or no) records of meetings and completely shut us out.

One of the worst things was once things had started happening (after we ended up going to our MP about the shocking treatment we had received) they saw how educated, MC and (possibly) white British we are and then completely changed their attitude towards us. It got to the point where we were questioning the most ridiculous things about ourselves as SW had no idea about anything going on and were suggesting ‘this could be a reason for the delay’

They also never followed up properly on our official complaint but sadly, we were so broken by the time it had sorted, we had no strength left to fight so it got put down as a resolved issue. So fucking corrupt.

Not going to get into the debate as to whether SWs are right or wrong in their decision making etc, but there is a petition active at the moment asking for SWs to wear body cams, as the police do, in order to reduce the instances of potential inaccuracies in written reports that go before the courts.

I think this might go a long way towards protecting all parties involved. Obviously it would only be used within the system, so it wouldn't risk loss of anonymity etc.

Would also mention that in some areas,it's very difficult now for parents of low income to access advocates or legal representation who can be a great help to both sides by explaining and over seeing due process.

When a child's safety and entire future is dependent on multi-disciplinary input, the standards should be high on all sides to make sure the best interests of the child are addressed accurately.

@ShimmeringShirts that must have been so hard for you. I'm glad that things got better, and hope that you are in a much better place now.

It's a mixture of low IQ, low education, no idea of healthy parenting and denial. SS are there to support parents and there's a very high threshold for involvement with taking kids away a last resort. And no I don't work for them, I'm a nurse. Even on this thread there's an example. As if a social worker is out to get you and would call you a bitch 🙄.

I really think there is a lot of naiviety here.

Mumsnetters are normally middle class women who gave birth in their 30's who have very little idea of how SS can treat the less articulate.

My hospital has a policy, ( this cannot be disputed, their SS referrals chart makes it clear), of anyone who discloses they were on care themselves as a child to SS during pregnancy. Pregnant mother's to be are then forced to relive their own childhood trauma to SS as part of a prebirth assessment. They don't get to decline , that would be non engaging .

Or Leiland-James or Elsie Scully-Hicks, who were removed at birth from parents who wanted them, and placed with adoptive parents who went on to murder them . As SS had assessed and approved the adoptors, very clearly they do make mistakes.

I’ve had social services involved twice. The first time due to DV and both of those social workers I had no issues with either of them although I was terrified of their involvement incase they took my children away. Which didn’t happen as I did what I was meant to: stayed in refuge, kept them and me away from their father, got them to school, found us a new home and engaged with what little support they could offer (cuts to everything must make their job so much harder).

The second time was due to my youngest child’s disability. I just wasn’t coping at this stage. I had no family support and the few good, trusted friends I had had their hands full with their own lives. This social worker was a cow. She liked me the first time she came over. The house was clean and tidy. The second time she came over was school holidays around tea time, had a terrible night (youngest sometimes just didn’t sleep for more than 3 hours in a 24 hour period and would systematically wreck the house), the kids were in pjs all day, the dishes needed doing and I’d just ordered pizza for tea. She was not impressed and said she was reporting me to her manager. It’s hard to describe but it was said in a proper mean girl way. I have no idea if she did so, but I never heard anything from said manager and got a letter and a report saying they were closing the case and wishing us luck. We didn’t meet the threshold for support basically. Despite me reaching out for help that time I was relieved to see the back of that SW. The report was littered with errors. They got names and ages wrong for a start: so my children would be referred to as their correct names in one sentence and then suddenly they’d be called Fred and Jane or something. It happened a lot throughout.

I get they’re busy people but I don’t think it’s right to send out reports to families and other professionals full of mistakes. The lead safeguard at one of the kids schools even checked with them to make sure she’d received the correct report.

My brother fosters. One of the children in his care is the child of a woman who is related to a friend of mine. The mother constantly posts on social media about how her child was taken from her because of he social workers have a vendetta against her because of her nationality.

When the child was taken into care, they had to be hospitalised to a severe flea infestation, and they were later diagnosed with foetal alcohol syndrome and have a huge amount of physical, psychological, and learning disabilities as a result.

These people aren’t in denial- they know they’re shit parents but won’t admit it. They love the drama of crying on social media about how dedicated they are to their children when the reality is often very different.

I think we romanticise parents when it comes to the care system. Films and tv shows often show someone down in their luck who lost their children through a series of unfortunate events and live for their two hour visitation every week.

The reality that I’ve seen from my brother and SIL and all the children they’ve fostered over the past 15 years is that a huge amount of parents just don’t turn up to visitation.

There’s always more to it.

I have a fb “friend” who lost custody of her children to the point where one was removed straight at birth.

She always posts about how SS are out to get her. That they only removed the children because of her abusive ex. She got lots of sympathy. How evil SS are.

I can’t quite remember the full story but it wasn’t just the ex that was the problem.

Doesn’t change the narrative for her though

People imagine parents who've had their children taken off them, hate their kids and torture them in awful ways - like little Arthur and Baby P.

These are exceptional cases though. The truth though is I've seen many, many children moved into foster care over the course of my career and not one of those children were unloved. The parents love those kids as much as you or I love our kids but for a variety of reasons (poor mental health, learning difficulties, past trauma, past abuse and many other reasons) were unable to care for their children in a safe and appropriate way.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the time children are removed from the home because of an abusive partner and mum is told she can keep the kids as long as partner is not allowed near them/in the home. SS sometimes fail to understand the sheer fear these women have of abusive men. They feel that by doing what the men say, they are to some extent controlling the situation and keeping the children safe. What other people see is mum loves X more than her own kids. She's let him back in the home even though she was told not to. Like I've said it's very complex.

@DONTMESSWITHMEDARNA do you honestly think anyone is going to believe what you've written?

I too am most interested to hear where it is that social workers receive their 'gaslighting training' 😂😂

What's most disturbing about your post is how poorly it is written. Please tell me you aren't the person responsible for teaching your children literacy skills at home? 😳

There are bad apples in SW just like every other profession.

There are people who should have SW who don't and people who shouldn't who do.

Assessments are very subjective.

Advice I'd give to anyone involved is smile, nod, agree to everything they say and wait it out til they go.

I had social services in and out of my life growing up, from small baby to about 15. I lived in one of those dirty, disgusting homes, and I wasn't taken. Clearly it wasn't bad enough! I was also physically and emotionally abused . SS really don't just take children!

I'm sorry, that wasn't my intention in my post. It was to highlight the clear lies that were told about procedure which casts doubt on the whole story told earlier.

It's obviously far more complex than can be discussed here and your post is really insightful.

Thank you for sharing so honestly and bravely.

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl well I have experience on both sides, I used to be a social worker for a local authority, and I was involved recently with a social worker due to looking after friends children.
I can say that some social workers have power complexes, are Keenan to take children from their parents & some will do everything they can to keep the family together. I remember some very questionable cases that I thought just weren't right, if you question it, you are simply ignored or taken'off of the case.

I took had an awful experience a few years later (we were looking after a relatives child) with some social worker who crashed into our lives, left a big mess & quite honestly did more damage than good. Before this experience I would have been far more balanced but now I can believe that the social services are both a mess & a nightmare to get involved with.

They gaslit us, lied in reports, just staying on this side of the law. We had no right to complain, we tried for the sake of the family & children but they were like cowboys just doing what they wanted. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I really think their input was damaging for the whole family involved.

My friend is a lawyer who works with people who are trying to get support, like an advocate. My god the stories!! You just don't realise this sort of thing goes on until you experience it yourself

Well done for fighting this, I agree there are innocents targeted, but the vast majority of SWs get it right - that balance between receiving a spurious complaint and finding parenting and environments that are harming children.

Oh and to echo @NotLikeTheOther people who have had really shit upbringings often have no idea of what a normal childhood should look like so they can only strive to be 'not as bad' as the parent they had. It's how these things repeat across generations. It's very sad.

I expect many of them believe what they're saying, either through ignorance, misunderstanding or lack of intelligence.

I can't comment on individual ones because I obviously haven't seen them and I'm sure social workers do make mistakes too.

However in my experience people who have been parented poorly often normalise that experience and repeat the same patterns of their childhood. It's incredibly hard to break out of these patterns. People also pick up on the most innocuous from a list of reasons to make SS involvement seem unnecessary - for example the house is unclean to the point of being unsafe (mould in bottles, medicines/sharp objects in easy reach), children don't have facilities to keep them selves clean (no toothbrush or toilet roll), discipline methods are unnecessarily harsh (locking in a dark room) and unable to get kids to school often enough (60% attendance) - to compound this dad is in the army so unable to provide day to day support with these issues.

What the parent hears is well this is because X is in the army, what can I do about that?

It's an incredibly complex issue, often complicated further by poverty and mental health issues. I wouldn't be a social worker for all of the money in the world; it's a very difficult job to get right and their caseloads are increasing by the week.

I'm a social worker, although with Adults, not Children. I now work in Older People's Services but did spend a few years working with substance mususers.

Of course there are some social workers who are crap at their Jobs BUT child protection decisions are multi-agency. That means GPs, education, health visitors etc as well as social workers making a collective decision. If a social worker was lying, then that should be picked up by other professionals.

Some of the people I worked with had children removed because their lifestyles were so dysfunctional that the children couldn't be kept safe. There was often months of support and intervention before that point, but sadly some parents are unable to utilise that and make the required changes.

I think the post by @DONTMESSWITHMEDARNA needs to be read with a large pinch of salt. As others have said, some of the things she states cannot possibly have happened.

Very few people on FB groups for people with CP involvement will be admitting that their parenting is putting their children in danger. We're not talking about a bit of shit parenting, which I'm sure we're all capable of at times, but sustained abuse whether that's physical, emotional, sexual, neglect etc. The parents narrative will be "mean/evil social workers lied and stole my children".

If you think about it, why would social workers lie to make things seem worse? The amount of paperwork, time invested, resources etc is MUCH higher. If social workers are going to lie or falsify records, it's much more likely they would do it the other way round eg claim to have done a home visit when they haven't, or minimise the situation in order to keep the workload lower.