Page 4 | To think a lot of posts on this social services Facebook group can’t be entirely truthful?

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 2023-02-22T19:18:03+00:00

5 years ago, my DD made a disclosure about a family friend which we reported to the police. As a result we had children’s services involved in our lives and had a horrendous excuse for a social worker who cast doubt of my DD’s experience. FWIW: I know the vast majority of social workers are excellent, sadly we had a very brief experience with a really incompetent one, so I’m not in the “all social workers are evil” camp. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to do that job in a broken country with failing systems. Anyway, at the time I joined a Facebook support group for those who have children’s services involved to get advice on how to handle everything that was going on. I never left the group, for no particular reason. And for some reason Facebook’s algorithm have been putting the posts on my feed more recently. Some of the posts are very strange. Posters claiming they’re on a child protection plan because their relatives are in the army. Or because they have a messy house. Some claim they don’t know why they’re at PLO level (which is a pre-cursor to court action). Loads of posts claiming SS are involved for no reason whatsoever, including pregnant women who look like they’re gonna have their babies removed and they don’t know why. Not all obviously but a large amount claim this. AIBU to think that children aren’t placed on the child protection register for living in a messy house and there must be more to it?

SnackSizeRaisin · 23/02/2023 14:47

Dinkleberg · 23/02/2023 07:19

Of course social workers can and do make mistakes. They're human. But one vindictive social worker cannot ensure a child is removed. Social services don't have that power, only a judge/the police can remove children.

My mum used to work closely with families that had SS involvement (not a social worker though). Many of them genuinely believed they were being unfairly targeted because SS just didn't agree with their parenting style, even though their children were being abused and neglected.

The judge goes off what they are told by the SW though. The judge does not personally go to the house, meet the children etc. And judges are well off, middle class, well educated, with all the usual prejudice against badly educated, young, female, possibly ethnic minority etc parents.

A judge is a lot more likely to believe a well spoken social worker who is after all a trusted professional, than someone who can barely speak English properly. It's easy to see how miscarriages of justice can happen.

Allybob88 · 23/02/2023 14:38

What an absolute load of tosh.

Lordofthebutterfloofs · 23/02/2023 14:31

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Brieandme · 23/02/2023 14:12

@Bamboux that's awful. Though I would stress that in my case my biggest fear would be parents using it to justify filming us, but giving away theirs & their children's confidentiality by sharing it. Eg I'm aware of parents livestreaming on Facebook when social workers have gone to remove children after court. Absolutely horrendous. I can sympathise with the parents and that perhaps they're using what means they feel are open to them, but it's so damaging to the children.

That and getting into tit for tat debates about what filming 'proves'. If it's a serious neglect case then filming would be useful, but in those the police would take photos or videos, eg a scenes of crime officer - I've had them attend when we've had some very very serious situations, eg where children had to be moved to a place of safety.

Whichwhatnow · 23/02/2023 14:11

LakieLady · 23/02/2023 13:39

I once worked with a client who maintained her child had been taken into care because her house was messy.

It wasn't the mess that bothered them as much as the fact that the mess included used syringes.

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Ugh.

When I was growing up my dad worked briefly for a couple (the grandson of a very famous/aristocratic man and his gf) who allowed their very young kids to chew on used condoms and eat frozen fishfingers (because no other food was available) while the parents were in a smack induced coma.

My dad reported them. Kids were taken off the mum. They had split up at this point and the man decided (and freely told everyone) to never see two of his two kids ever again because they were 'too dark'. The youngest two were 'passing white' so he happily continued to look after them.

Some parents are horrendous yet seem to have no recognition of it.

Bamboux · 23/02/2023 13:48

Brieandme · 23/02/2023 13:36

@bluelollipop99 in our authority, midwives will offer enhanced support to pregnant care leavers and will offer a referral to our early help service, recognising that many care leavers are vulnerable due to lack of support.

If our safeguarding hub receives a referral where the only 'concern' is that the mum to be was a care leaver we give advice but we don't necessarily take the referral.

It used to be policy that any mum to be who was a care leaver was automatically referred for an assessment, and even expected to be part of a pre birth child protection conference, but we changed our policy as it was discriminatory. We have to look at the whole picture and not assume risk.

To the poster who asked if any SWs would be comfortable with body cams, I wouldn't. Many of the families and especially children I go and see would be put off if I took out a notebook. They wouldn't speak to me at all if it was being filmed. I also don't think there would be any practical way of storing and reviewing video given the volume of data it would produce, and I f don't think the narrow focus of a bodycam would give a clear picture to a reviewer - a lot of things we see are subtle.
Lastly, if we wore bodycams I would imagine a lot of families would want to film us - only fair, right? You film me I'll film you... It's bad enough when people find our pictures online and put them on anti social work sites, the last thing Id want is recordings of me on social media. A good friend of mine had to move areas because of a campaign of abuse by one parent who repeatedly posted online that he was a peadophile.

My mum was a children and families' social worker and we had to go ex-directory (this was in the 80s/90s) due to a client who tried to wage a war against her and used to phone up shouting terrible abuse at whoever answered the phone in our house.

LakieLady · 23/02/2023 13:39

WeCome1 · 22/02/2023 19:22

It might be that they have a messy house, but that mess = dog poo on the floor, no proper bed etc

I once worked with a client who maintained her child had been taken into care because her house was messy.

It wasn't the mess that bothered them as much as the fact that the mess included used syringes.

Brieandme · 23/02/2023 13:36

@bluelollipop99 in our authority, midwives will offer enhanced support to pregnant care leavers and will offer a referral to our early help service, recognising that many care leavers are vulnerable due to lack of support.

If our safeguarding hub receives a referral where the only 'concern' is that the mum to be was a care leaver we give advice but we don't necessarily take the referral.

It used to be policy that any mum to be who was a care leaver was automatically referred for an assessment, and even expected to be part of a pre birth child protection conference, but we changed our policy as it was discriminatory. We have to look at the whole picture and not assume risk.

To the poster who asked if any SWs would be comfortable with body cams, I wouldn't. Many of the families and especially children I go and see would be put off if I took out a notebook. They wouldn't speak to me at all if it was being filmed. I also don't think there would be any practical way of storing and reviewing video given the volume of data it would produce, and I f don't think the narrow focus of a bodycam would give a clear picture to a reviewer - a lot of things we see are subtle.
Lastly, if we wore bodycams I would imagine a lot of families would want to film us - only fair, right? You film me I'll film you... It's bad enough when people find our pictures online and put them on anti social work sites, the last thing Id want is recordings of me on social media. A good friend of mine had to move areas because of a campaign of abuse by one parent who repeatedly posted online that he was a peadophile.

countrygirl99 · 23/02/2023 13:00

Through my hobby I knew someone who complained social services were trying to take her children because their bedding wasn't clean she omitted to mention that social services had supplied beds that she had sold to buy booze and fags. That there was days old dog shit in every room that her toddler and just crawling baby were playing in. That all her children had foetal alcohol syndrome. That she used to disappear for days on a bender leaving all 6 children in the care of a 14yo with severe learning difficulties caused by foetal alcohol syndrome. That she used to get the 14yo to drive to the pub to pick her and the latest boyfriend up leaving the 5 kids in the care of a 12 yo with severe learning difficulties. And that's just the stuff I knew about. God knows what else went on.
She disappeared suddenly. It was her habit to move to a different county as soon as care looked imminent. She'd been in our county 9 months.

OutofEverything · 23/02/2023 12:56

NotLikeTheOther · 22/02/2023 19:23

In my experience through working in a school, lots of children on child protection or child in need plans have parents with learning difficulties that were probably never picked up at school. They genuinely do not understand what they are doing wrong as they are simply parenting the way their parents did (who probably also had unidentified learning difficulties or mental health problems). Parents who had abusive upbringings themselves also often have no concept of ‘normal’, e.g. if they were horribly abused they may well think that, by comparison, their children have a good life as they are ‘only’ neglected.

I agree with this.
And I have come across people whose idea of a messy house is a total health hazard. I have been in a place for example where the woman said she had tidied up for me coming. She still had to clear a space on the sofa for me to sit down and the kitchen looked filthy. Some people have no idea of what is normal.

thecatsthecats · 23/02/2023 12:41

NotLikeTheOther · 22/02/2023 19:23

In my experience through working in a school, lots of children on child protection or child in need plans have parents with learning difficulties that were probably never picked up at school. They genuinely do not understand what they are doing wrong as they are simply parenting the way their parents did (who probably also had unidentified learning difficulties or mental health problems). Parents who had abusive upbringings themselves also often have no concept of ‘normal’, e.g. if they were horribly abused they may well think that, by comparison, their children have a good life as they are ‘only’ neglected.

This was my experience in the pandemic, especially when it came to neglectful parents. They simply didn't/couldn't accept that their parenting was poor enough to justify their kids being better off in school.

MistressoftheDarkSide · 23/02/2023 12:35

Can I ask the SWs here if they feel that body cams would be a useful tool in helping them do their work, by reducing margins of error or inaccuracies caused by false perceptions on both sides?

It could also be argued it might lessen the admin load, as a recorded meeting could be transcribed alongside any subjective analysis required.

If you don't like the idea, could you explain why not?

Bamboux · 23/02/2023 12:27

bluelollipop99 · 23/02/2023 12:01

@BertyMyrtle , can I ask why if SS only get involved when there are actual evidence of abuse; do SW's compel maternity departments to automatically notify them if either adult parent had been in care as a child ?

Can you not understand how care leavers are likely to feel gaslit by having to justify and prove themselves to SS, and to be told "as you were abused / neglected you're going to do the same thing.'

It is neither gaslighting nor telling them that they are going to be terrible parents.

Most non care leavers have some input from their own parents when they have children, or from other family members.

Care leavers may well have limited or no contact with their own parents, they may have no extended family, they may have been moved around to different areas of the country and lack broader support networks.

They may not have any suitable models of parenting to draw on.

It would be really shit to just throw them out and tell them to get on with it. They are not being called abusers or neglectful. They are being offered additional support.

BertyMyrtle · 23/02/2023 12:24

bluelollipop99 · 23/02/2023 12:01

@BertyMyrtle , can I ask why if SS only get involved when there are actual evidence of abuse; do SW's compel maternity departments to automatically notify them if either adult parent had been in care as a child ?

Can you not understand how care leavers are likely to feel gaslit by having to justify and prove themselves to SS, and to be told "as you were abused / neglected you're going to do the same thing.'

Social workers don’t only get involved if there’s evidence of abuse, they also get involved if there’s clear criteria for support to prevent abuse from happening.

It’s not about punishing a care leaver, it’s about recognising that care leavers are unlikely to have strong support networks around them, combined with challenging backgrounds, and may need additional help. Don’t forget, if a child has been in care, then it’s a strong likelihood that the Local Authority had been their corporate parent at some point. This would be an extension of the support offered then. Also, not all health authorities automatically refer care leavers who are to become parents to Children’s Services.

Blueflag22 · 23/02/2023 12:23

ohfook · 23/02/2023 08:48

People imagine parents who've had their children taken off them, hate their kids and torture them in awful ways - like little Arthur and Baby P.

These are exceptional cases though. The truth though is I've seen many, many children moved into foster care over the course of my career and not one of those children were unloved. The parents love those kids as much as you or I love our kids but for a variety of reasons (poor mental health, learning difficulties, past trauma, past abuse and many other reasons) were unable to care for their children in a safe and appropriate way.

It's also worth noting that a lot of the time children are removed from the home because of an abusive partner and mum is told she can keep the kids as long as partner is not allowed near them/in the home. SS sometimes fail to understand the sheer fear these women have of abusive men. They feel that by doing what the men say, they are to some extent controlling the situation and keeping the children safe. What other people see is mum loves X more than her own kids. She's let him back in the home even though she was told not to. Like I've said it's very complex.

I think you've just described a friend of mine but social worker really did try and get her away but she made excuses and social worker said she Justinian strong enough, in her defence they did try and help and I saw it first hand. There was drug and alcoholic abuse as well. They didn't just take her child, she kept allowing him in the house despite knowing what he is like. Trauma bonded I think. She loves her kids and never misses contact.

PennyRa · 23/02/2023 12:23

Being of low intelligence can be a reason for being considered at risk. Many of them would not understand why

bluelollipop99 · 23/02/2023 12:01

@BertyMyrtle , can I ask why if SS only get involved when there are actual evidence of abuse; do SW's compel maternity departments to automatically notify them if either adult parent had been in care as a child ?

Can you not understand how care leavers are likely to feel gaslit by having to justify and prove themselves to SS, and to be told "as you were abused / neglected you're going to do the same thing.'

Greatly · 23/02/2023 11:58

DONTMESSWITHMEDARNA · 23/02/2023 04:42

there are many innocent people being targets by nasty toxic workers
y
i had 2 and half years of hell from a toxic nasty bitch of a worker who personally disliked my life style choices and lied and made up so much shit on her first report.

no one checks these reports to see if what they are saying are true. well her manager didn't anyway.

she turned up after a fake referral from whoever(boy if i knew who did it) saying my at the time 10y old wasn't attending the local school.
we home educate and hes never been in school. all legal and millions home ed

from very first meeting,where she pushed passed me at the door she tried to bully me and talk down to me, im not that person(im a major alpha female type)and would not take her shit. i told her very firmly to leave and on leaving she turned and practically spat at me and said that's it bitch im getting you.

with in the same day they were put on a CPP for parenting and educational neglect, her reasons, you ready for this?

BECAUSE i follow attachment gentle parenting and home educate.
this was april 20 so in the first lockdown, where no one was attending school
she would visit 4 times a week on her way home from work so technically out of work(never let in though,always ignored as none was legally scheduled )i would wake up to phone calls and voice mails from her demanding me to tell her my education plans for today and as unschoolers that's not how it works.i found out later even on her days off so even sat in her own hose i was on her mind

my boys have many disabilities each and oldest was diagnosed in 2012,this bitch tried to say its all in my head and im only doing for dla money(didnt mater that i was a 24/7 carer as hes that severe)and tried to get them overturned.
she even bullied the doctors receptionist.

surgery put in a complaint in about this

she though she could bully me in to doing t hings how she saw fit

if i disagreed with anything she said or even answered back or even quote laws she would threated an emergency care order with in the hour,this happened numerous times a week.
it would nev3er change my answer as 1 i eqas right and 2 it was laws that you can easily google

i found out afterwards its not that simple but i didnt know that at the time,she was nasty enough to do it

at meeting i and the solicitor would quote home education laws at her and she wouldn't accept it and would repeat and repeat well i dont agree with it so im not listening or accepting them you WILL do this how i tell you

they are laws for the whole uk and this bitch thought her personal opinion was above them.the solicitor was gob smacked after every meeting and would, put his own complaints in about her as she treated him the same way

her manager was just as corrupt and believe the whole lies of reports or just didn't bother to get them checked.

youngest was 4 years of fertility treatment as i don't/didn't see periods due to sever PCOS(im 42 and never seen one) i was called a liar about that. even though there's medical reports which the solicitor provided ands she accused him of doctoring them up

he was also 11lb11oz and 29 inches born i was told im making that up i bet he was about 5 llbs as no babies that big ,she shut up when i showed her proof.

i found out later they are trained in gaslighting

i fought them all the way with the help of a great solicitor who in 35 years of fighting SS he never came across one as biased and obnoxious as her and thought she was above he law and how unprofessional she was.

we did stage 1,2 and 3 complaints against them both. stage 3 are severe and after a long battle both got fired for using personal beliefs over professional and corrupt behaviour and using her job as a personal vendetta

i joined those groups desperate for help as before i though SS only got involved when there was a reason . boy was i wrong there are so many innocent families targeted because a SW don't like you or don't parent how they see fit.

im a living reason to say its not the case and SW will do what they can and what ever they want to get you on plans. if she followed the laws and regulations she had zero reason to put them on any list/plan

i had her,without my permission sign me up on a authoritative parent course for under 5s(boy were 10 and 16)as that's what she followed and following gentle/attachment parenting since 04 this wasnt happening,she even want as far as to enrol both kids in to the local school and 6th form,6th form was 40 minutes away so no idea why the school accepted that, we think she pretended to be the parent

both school got involved after that and complained as they were used in her path of personal destruction.

so as the doctors,and schools was being used as her tool to hit me with all this was used as evidence.and my very lengthy detailed complaints(as i recorded every conversation and written communication) and the solicitors

all this caused me to have an emotional breakdown,both kids trauma and with the help of said solicitor in the process of claiming compensation against SS for allowing these people(ie SW and manager) to get away with this behaviour and the manager not checking enough on her workers behaviour/illegal practices

i was just annoyed it took 2 and half years of fighting this toxic bitch to get heard.

so after a very long personal story(people need to know these thing do happen so that's why im writing this ),yes there are many innocent parent being target by nasty social workers and the whole corrupt system.

i was one of the lucky ones,not once was my kids taken away just the threat of it as at one point she tried the FII route(Fabricated or induced illness)googled it its bad

Wow. Some people really are desperate to make their lives full of drama.

Trinity65 · 23/02/2023 11:56

Lordofthebutterfloofs · 22/02/2023 19:22

Of course there is more too it. Sorry if it sounds harsh but many of these people are of low intelligence.

Sounds harsh?

No it sounds spiteful!

Usernamebuffering · 23/02/2023 11:54

It's the attitude that is usually the reason for removal. "My house is a mess but I'm drowning due to MH issues please help me" is different to "my house isn't a mess fuck off you social working cunt".

Being introspective and working with authorities will always work better than standing your ground and not accepting help when it's offered.

watermelonandlime · 23/02/2023 11:44

bluelollipop99 · 23/02/2023 10:47

People always talk about Protecting our Children on here as if it proves social services worth. Yet in the first episode, Tiffany and Mike were clearly loving parents who were gaslit by a very , very annoying and patronising SW. The way they talked down to Mike when asking him to "voluntarily" agree to have his son taken into foster care when Tiffany was in hospital for pre eclampsia was horrific. Their flat was very clearly not filthy either, and neither were they drug/ alcohol users .

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Did we watch the same programme? The Mother certainly may have loved her child but that isn't enough. They spent months trying to engage the family. The boy didn't have a bed or a toothbrush, there were newspapers over the floor of the flat covered in dog urine and faeces, the child was not being interacted with and didn't have a safe space to play. Multiple professionals met the family and all were deeply concerned. The trigger to the child ultimately going into care was his Dad being unable to keep him fed and hygienic when Mum was in hospital. It was a very sad programme and one can't help but feel desperately sorry for Mum. However, I really struggle to see how you could feel they were loving, adequate parents who were just gaslit by social services.

BertyMyrtle · 23/02/2023 11:37

purpleboy · 23/02/2023 10:00

@TourmalineGiraffe I think your posts have been the most sensible on here.
No doubt there is lots of denial, or as a poster said unable to recognise the issues, but we if we believe all SW are good who never wrongly accuse or make false statements it makes us feel safe to believe we will never find ourselves in that situation because we're not like them.
I have personally found myself in a terrible situation which ruined my life for a long time because lies were told about me by those in a position of power, not SS related, so I can absolutely believe there are some out there that will abuse their power.

And this is why, as a social worker, I haven’t commented on the other poster’s information about their interactions with their social worker, as who’s to know what was actually said other that the pp and the SW. There’s always rogues in any profession who act unprofessionally and have their own agenda.

I would however comment on the inaccuracies in the other poster’s post - no CP plan happens in a day, a multi-agency strategy discussion needs to be held first to agree the conference, then a conference is booked with 10 working days, then the professionals there jointly decide. There is definitely no ‘gaslighting’ training - that is so ridiculous that I won’t even try and justify this. Finally, I would be staggered to think any social worker has the time to make 4 visits a week, particularly to a family who ‘do not need it’. I’ve never known any social worker to have the capacity to do this. Goodness, when I was ordered by the court to complete daily visits, this was split within the team and we paid for external agencies to help too. Those bits particularly seem made up for effect.

shopmyfeelings · 23/02/2023 11:23

It's certainly a really good point that any intervention and work needs to be holistic.

A social worker can make recommendations about mental health support but then an adult or child can sit on a 6/12/18 month waiting list or the support they get it's not actually meeting their needs.

A DA survivor could be asked to do DA work and education but then the course isn't being run because of budgets. Or all the courses are full this year.

A child with disabilities needs assessment, specialist education provision, respite for parents and siblings, equipment, care in the home etc but there's no money or they don't meet the threshold.

Social services can't do all the work needed themselves and in isolation.

bluelollipop99 · 23/02/2023 11:17

Actually @TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl what is the name/ link to the FB group?

Quitelikeit · 23/02/2023 11:05

Why don’t you go back on FB and post a link to this thread on that particular page 😆😆