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AIBU?

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Original poster

To think a lot of posts on this social services Facebook group can’t be entirely truthful?

212 replies

TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 22/02/2023 19:18

5 years ago, my DD made a disclosure about a family friend which we reported to the police. As a result we had children’s services involved in our lives and had a horrendous excuse for a social worker who cast doubt of my DD’s experience. FWIW: I know the vast majority of social workers are excellent, sadly we had a very brief experience with a really incompetent one, so I’m not in the “all social workers are evil” camp. I can’t imagine how hard it must be to do that job in a broken country with failing systems.

Anyway, at the time I joined a Facebook support group for those who have children’s services involved to get advice on how to handle everything that was going on. I never left the group, for no particular reason. And for some reason Facebook’s algorithm have been putting the posts on my feed more recently.

Some of the posts are very strange.

Posters claiming they’re on a child protection plan because their relatives are in the army. Or because they have a messy house. Some claim they don’t know why they’re at PLO level (which is a pre-cursor to court action). Loads of posts claiming SS are involved for no reason whatsoever, including pregnant women who look like they’re gonna have their babies removed and they don’t know why. Not all obviously but a large amount claim this.

AIBU to think that children aren’t placed on the child protection register for living in a messy house and there must be more to it?

OP posts:
Allthegoodnamesarechosen · 28/02/2023 17:52

I suppose it is easier and more comfortable to deny or minimise; because if you admitted it, you might feel obliged to do something about it, or at least accept some responsibility for the consequences of your actions or inactions.

Much , much more comfortable to deny it, or make up a story about victimisation.

Original poster
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 28/02/2023 17:44

Tandora · 28/02/2023 17:13

So you have had a terrible experience with SS but don’t believe others when they share theirs?

I think YAB way more U than you realise unfortunately

I have said I can well believe people get an incompetent social worker. But I’m afraid I do find it hard to believe that children are at risk of being removed just because their house is a bit messy on one occasion.

OP posts:
Original poster
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 28/02/2023 17:42

This reply has been deleted

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

Babies absolutely do get removed at birth if there is a belief of significant risk of harm.

Leiland James being one

OP posts:
Tandora · 28/02/2023 17:13

So you have had a terrible experience with SS but don’t believe others when they share theirs?

I think YAB way more U than you realise unfortunately

MGK · 28/02/2023 17:07

My house is messy and I've had professionals come round and they've never involved SS so obviously more to it than that.

AnnaKorine · 28/02/2023 17:03

These stories are unsurprising when lack of insight of the parents is one of the main reasons they can’t make the necessary changes to provide good enough parenting to their children. If they understood and addressed them then they wouldn’t be in this situation.

There are of course many shades of grey and some possibly unfair decisions at the margins.

BrieAndChilli · 28/02/2023 14:45

it is really hard to comprehend but having read a few studies recently, some people just do not have the same mental ability as others - they can not think things through in the same way or comprehend certain ideas or points of view. I just thought soome people were idiots but actually they just cannot process things in the same way.
I think they truly believe what they are saying but just cant see that dirty dishes and animal waste is not just 'normal clutter'.

Purpleflowerseverywhere · 28/02/2023 14:20

This reply has been withdrawn

This message has been withdrawn at the poster's request

countrygirl99 · 28/02/2023 13:53

My experience of "lying" by social workers (although this is elder care rather than children) is someone wilfully misinterpreting what was said and then having a hissy fit because they don't get what they want. So FIL would ask for something, be told "it's highly unlikely we would be able to do that " and take it as a promise it would be done and then have a hossy fit when it didn't happen. Original conversation witnessed by other family members. Then he would tell everyone SS had gone back on promises and get sympathy from his mates.

LilLilLi · 28/02/2023 13:37

bluelollipop99 · 28/02/2023 10:03

But on the other hand @LilLilLi , many parents ask for interviews to be recorded because the soical worker has previously been untruthful. Of course parents should have the right to decline filming on their property, but is it right that SS refuse even the option of recording interviews etc if that's what they'd like ? How does it inspire trust if SS insist they have the right to interview parents, but unlike a police interview, patents have no right to even request a recorded copy ?

I can honestly say that in all the core meetings I’ve sat through and all the visits I’ve done never has someone asked for the interaction to be recorded.

I can only speak for myself obviously, others may have different experiences.

Original poster
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 28/02/2023 12:37

bluelollipop99 · 28/02/2023 10:03

But on the other hand @LilLilLi , many parents ask for interviews to be recorded because the soical worker has previously been untruthful. Of course parents should have the right to decline filming on their property, but is it right that SS refuse even the option of recording interviews etc if that's what they'd like ? How does it inspire trust if SS insist they have the right to interview parents, but unlike a police interview, patents have no right to even request a recorded copy ?

Surely you can record whatever you like in your home? It just wouldn’t be treated as something official

OP posts:
Original poster
TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl · 28/02/2023 12:36

bluelollipop99 · 28/02/2023 09:45

Actually, a question to @Brieandme and to the other social workers on here who would refuse to be recorded when interviewing parents ?

You accept the police cannot even interview a suspect r.e shoplifting ( when the penalty would likely be a caution or some other low level punishment), without being recorded ?

Yet social workers can conduct parenting assessments, interview extremely vulnerable people , ( parents who may have learning disabilities, mental illness, be under 18 etc) , to decide whether to take them court to seek the permanent removal of their children / unborn children, ( a lot more serious than any of the outcomes likely for your low level shoplifter above ) , and it is considered outrageous for the social worker to be expected to record what is said in these interviews to prevent circular he said/ she said arguments at court ?

Why is this considered okay ?

This is a good point.

I often think if you don’t have the nouse to challenge lies, to correct errors and to stand up for yourself you’d be fucked if SS came into your life.

OP posts:
RedCarsGoFaster · 28/02/2023 12:06

It's not that straightforward @bluelollipop99 though. Police are trained and equipped to manage violence. Social Workers are not. Cameras often up the ante and can make things ten times worse rather than improve them.

I do agree though that audio recording of these kinds of discussions is important, but again that's not straightforward - the availability of electronic equipment, inability to use power sources at the homes of many clients (cost, safety), how not changes the way the conversation runs and leading to it being much more stilted and parents being less forthcoming, making it into a formulated interview where it's just chit-chat. It affects all levels of the intervention from the low level support through to children being removed. Add in storage and retention of all that data and equipment.

I agree with the principle but I'm not sure the practicalities are that straightforward.

bluelollipop99 · 28/02/2023 10:03

But on the other hand @LilLilLi , many parents ask for interviews to be recorded because the soical worker has previously been untruthful. Of course parents should have the right to decline filming on their property, but is it right that SS refuse even the option of recording interviews etc if that's what they'd like ? How does it inspire trust if SS insist they have the right to interview parents, but unlike a police interview, patents have no right to even request a recorded copy ?

LilLilLi · 28/02/2023 09:58

bluelollipop99 · 28/02/2023 09:45

Actually, a question to @Brieandme and to the other social workers on here who would refuse to be recorded when interviewing parents ?

You accept the police cannot even interview a suspect r.e shoplifting ( when the penalty would likely be a caution or some other low level punishment), without being recorded ?

Yet social workers can conduct parenting assessments, interview extremely vulnerable people , ( parents who may have learning disabilities, mental illness, be under 18 etc) , to decide whether to take them court to seek the permanent removal of their children / unborn children, ( a lot more serious than any of the outcomes likely for your low level shoplifter above ) , and it is considered outrageous for the social worker to be expected to record what is said in these interviews to prevent circular he said/ she said arguments at court ?

Why is this considered okay ?

Why do you assume the parents being visited would consent to being recorded? Social workers often visit alone, not in pairs like the police, and if someone becomes aggressive because they’re being recorded it puts social workers, mainly women, at risk.

bluelollipop99 · 28/02/2023 09:45

Actually, a question to @Brieandme and to the other social workers on here who would refuse to be recorded when interviewing parents ?

You accept the police cannot even interview a suspect r.e shoplifting ( when the penalty would likely be a caution or some other low level punishment), without being recorded ?

Yet social workers can conduct parenting assessments, interview extremely vulnerable people , ( parents who may have learning disabilities, mental illness, be under 18 etc) , to decide whether to take them court to seek the permanent removal of their children / unborn children, ( a lot more serious than any of the outcomes likely for your low level shoplifter above ) , and it is considered outrageous for the social worker to be expected to record what is said in these interviews to prevent circular he said/ she said arguments at court ?

Why is this considered okay ?

Messyhair321 · 24/02/2023 20:46

They always say funding is the issue but so much money is wasted in these environments. They've been saying for years it's about funding. It's also about preventative care, skillset & retaining good staff. Low morale is often rampant in these jobs certainly was when I was a social worker & worked for the local authority

Messyhair321 · 24/02/2023 20:41

Timesawastin · 24/02/2023 00:05

"The stories" can very often be exactly that. Stories. Other versions of events may be available.

Show quote history

That is my story, I'm glad I left that job.
It might not be comfortable to believe that this sort of thing happens but they sure as hell do

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 24/02/2023 07:10

Feefee00 · 23/02/2023 19:49

I always thought SS had child's best interests at heart. Sadly I've seen a few mother's with mild learning disabilities not being given reasonable adjustments , not being given placement in m&b unit. They sometimes seem to be biased ,
www.learningdisabilitytoday.co.uk/children-of-parents-with-a-learning-disability-54-times-more-likely-to-be-taken-into-care

Not saying there isn't bias but isn't part of the problem that there is a lack of funding for mother and baby units (and therefore a lack of places).

I've heard that if, for example, there's only one space available and say, 3 possible candidates for the space, they will prioritize whoever they think is most likely to benefit and be able to parent independently later on. Which doesn't mean that the other person couldn't succeed and become a successful parent.

But I can see how it would lead to parents with learning disabilities not being prioritised for spaces.

I think the answer in a lot of cases is more funding.

Postapocalypticcowgirl · 24/02/2023 07:03

OutofEverything · 23/02/2023 16:11

I agree that social workers sometimes do whatever they can so the local authority does not have to pay for adult care. They are under a lot of pressure to get family to look after people.

To be honest, I think this applies to children too, in some cases.

I have literally been there with a teenager who's mum had refused to have him home, couldn't go to his dad's for very valid reasons, didn't have anywhere to stay, and school staff couldn't get a social worker to help - they wanted us/him to find a family member or friend to stay with and the school to try to help him resolve the situation with mum.
I will admit I was pretty shocked by that.

Timesawastin · 24/02/2023 00:05

Messyhair321 · 23/02/2023 08:29

@TheObstinateHeadstrongGirl well I have experience on both sides, I used to be a social worker for a local authority, and I was involved recently with a social worker due to looking after friends children.
I can say that some social workers have power complexes, are Keenan to take children from their parents & some will do everything they can to keep the family together. I remember some very questionable cases that I thought just weren't right, if you question it, you are simply ignored or taken'off of the case.

I took had an awful experience a few years later (we were looking after a relatives child) with some social worker who crashed into our lives, left a big mess & quite honestly did more damage than good. Before this experience I would have been far more balanced but now I can believe that the social services are both a mess & a nightmare to get involved with.

They gaslit us, lied in reports, just staying on this side of the law. We had no right to complain, we tried for the sake of the family & children but they were like cowboys just doing what they wanted. I'm not exaggerating when I say that I really think their input was damaging for the whole family involved.

My friend is a lawyer who works with people who are trying to get support, like an advocate. My god the stories!! You just don't realise this sort of thing goes on until you experience it yourself

"The stories" can very often be exactly that. Stories. Other versions of events may be available.

Canuckduck · 23/02/2023 21:47

It’s a difficult, nuanced, complicated and emotionally draining job.

I worked as a Child Protection Social Worker for 10 years and then had my children and never went back. Looking back when I started I was very young, naive and did not have children. I did not fully comprehend the pressures the families I worked with were under. I also was probably too gullible when someone told me they wanted to change.

I always tried to treat people with honesty and respect but it’s not easy to sit across from someone who’s knowingly choosing a sexually abusive partner over her own children. I continually took advantage of education and training and in time my practice improved.

Later I found the contrast between what the conditions the children I worked with and my own children heart breaking. I went into Social Work because I care about people and justice and like working with children. However the system is so broken you can’t predict if the intervention will improve things. I have a much less stressful role now but still miss working with families.

Like all professions they are excellent, average and crap Social Workers. That’s life.

alltheevennumbers · 23/02/2023 21:17

Whilst the idea that Social Workers will be marking for spelling mistakes raised a smile, sneering at women who have had difficult life experiences is unkind and speaks volumes.

Sapphire387 · 23/02/2023 20:08

@BooksAndHooks I am sorry this was your experience too. People deserve better than this.

@Brieandme Thank you for your message, I found that very illuminating in terms of hearing what adult social services can be like 'from the inside'. Awful, really.

Cinecitta · 23/02/2023 20:07

DONTMESSWITHMEDARNA · 23/02/2023 04:42

there are many innocent people being targets by nasty toxic workers
y
i had 2 and half years of hell from a toxic nasty bitch of a worker who personally disliked my life style choices and lied and made up so much shit on her first report.

no one checks these reports to see if what they are saying are true. well her manager didn't anyway.

she turned up after a fake referral from whoever(boy if i knew who did it) saying my at the time 10y old wasn't attending the local school.
we home educate and hes never been in school. all legal and millions home ed

from very first meeting,where she pushed passed me at the door she tried to bully me and talk down to me, im not that person(im a major alpha female type)and would not take her shit. i told her very firmly to leave and on leaving she turned and practically spat at me and said that's it bitch im getting you.

with in the same day they were put on a CPP for parenting and educational neglect, her reasons, you ready for this?

BECAUSE i follow attachment gentle parenting and home educate.
this was april 20 so in the first lockdown, where no one was attending school
she would visit 4 times a week on her way home from work so technically out of work(never let in though,always ignored as none was legally scheduled )i would wake up to phone calls and voice mails from her demanding me to tell her my education plans for today and as unschoolers that's not how it works.i found out later even on her days off so even sat in her own hose i was on her mind

my boys have many disabilities each and oldest was diagnosed in 2012,this bitch tried to say its all in my head and im only doing for dla money(didnt mater that i was a 24/7 carer as hes that severe)and tried to get them overturned.
she even bullied the doctors receptionist.

surgery put in a complaint in about this

she though she could bully me in to doing t hings how she saw fit

if i disagreed with anything she said or even answered back or even quote laws she would threated an emergency care order with in the hour,this happened numerous times a week.
it would nev3er change my answer as 1 i eqas right and 2 it was laws that you can easily google

i found out afterwards its not that simple but i didnt know that at the time,she was nasty enough to do it

at meeting i and the solicitor would quote home education laws at her and she wouldn't accept it and would repeat and repeat well i dont agree with it so im not listening or accepting them you WILL do this how i tell you

they are laws for the whole uk and this bitch thought her personal opinion was above them.the solicitor was gob smacked after every meeting and would, put his own complaints in about her as she treated him the same way

her manager was just as corrupt and believe the whole lies of reports or just didn't bother to get them checked.

youngest was 4 years of fertility treatment as i don't/didn't see periods due to sever PCOS(im 42 and never seen one) i was called a liar about that. even though there's medical reports which the solicitor provided ands she accused him of doctoring them up

he was also 11lb11oz and 29 inches born i was told im making that up i bet he was about 5 llbs as no babies that big ,she shut up when i showed her proof.

i found out later they are trained in gaslighting

i fought them all the way with the help of a great solicitor who in 35 years of fighting SS he never came across one as biased and obnoxious as her and thought she was above he law and how unprofessional she was.

we did stage 1,2 and 3 complaints against them both. stage 3 are severe and after a long battle both got fired for using personal beliefs over professional and corrupt behaviour and using her job as a personal vendetta

i joined those groups desperate for help as before i though SS only got involved when there was a reason . boy was i wrong there are so many innocent families targeted because a SW don't like you or don't parent how they see fit.

im a living reason to say its not the case and SW will do what they can and what ever they want to get you on plans. if she followed the laws and regulations she had zero reason to put them on any list/plan

i had her,without my permission sign me up on a authoritative parent course for under 5s(boy were 10 and 16)as that's what she followed and following gentle/attachment parenting since 04 this wasnt happening,she even want as far as to enrol both kids in to the local school and 6th form,6th form was 40 minutes away so no idea why the school accepted that, we think she pretended to be the parent

both school got involved after that and complained as they were used in her path of personal destruction.

so as the doctors,and schools was being used as her tool to hit me with all this was used as evidence.and my very lengthy detailed complaints(as i recorded every conversation and written communication) and the solicitors

all this caused me to have an emotional breakdown,both kids trauma and with the help of said solicitor in the process of claiming compensation against SS for allowing these people(ie SW and manager) to get away with this behaviour and the manager not checking enough on her workers behaviour/illegal practices

i was just annoyed it took 2 and half years of fighting this toxic bitch to get heard.

so after a very long personal story(people need to know these thing do happen so that's why im writing this ),yes there are many innocent parent being target by nasty social workers and the whole corrupt system.

i was one of the lucky ones,not once was my kids taken away just the threat of it as at one point she tried the FII route(Fabricated or induced illness)googled it its bad

If you are home educating your children with this kind of language and dreadful spelling, why are you surprised that social services are watching you like a hawk?