....to think men are, sorry, but AWFUL

Most of my Friends are happily married.

Has anyone brought up that old adage yet of 'men are terrified women will laugh at them, women are terrified men will kill them'?

Some women can be terribly unkind, and they can be awful partners because of that.

But significantly more women than men find themselves terrified of a different sex partner. Some women are physically abusive, but the majority of abusers are men.

Both men and women can be terrible, but when a man is terrible, he's really terrible.

The more stories you hear from the women in your close circle, and the more negative experiences you have, the harder it is to keep the faith that you'll find one of the good guys. I'm not saying they don't exist... just that they're difficult to find.

See that's your problem right there. Nuance and a difference of perspectives.

You say, "whenever there is thread like this..." but completely neglect that you yourself have fallen into the trap of "men do XYZ of violent and brutal stuff".

This thread started out as an infidelity issue, not men killing and raping women but all too often, any bad behaviour is rapidly followed by all the other more dreadful stuff that men do. It's done all the time.

People saying that women are as bad aren't suggesting that women kill and rape men but in context of the OP, it's a valid argument. Yet by jumping on the "men kill women" bandwagon, the discussion has lost all nuance and basis for debate. It's a silencing tactic that serves no purpose but to shut down debate. And whether intentional or not, this is what you're doing.

Noone is debating that some men do all the truly nasty stuff but that has little relevance to the OP.

There are many positives but when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. My FIL is kind, gentle, loyal, generous, hard working and a great husband/father. What more do you want? My OH is the same but it's of little interest when a PP said that even the good ones are bad. What complete load of bollocks.

I repeat I had a shit first relationship. I don't judge all men by his bad behaviour. Got rid and moved in.

Passive aggression, full-on verbal aggression, ridiculing things I did, trying to control me, making utterly ridiculous claims about me that made absolutely no sense whatsoever, and constantly having to walk on eggshells to avoid triggering a psychotic episode.

Your last paragraph applies to both men and women.

There you are taking the pisx because some of us are happy with the men in our lives.

So sorry you have been through what you have.

I had the best Btother in the world who died. I have a fab DH. I've just been sat having a drink with two of our male friends. One is an amazing step dad to a down syndrome guy.

I could go on.

That's your choice, you enjoy life that way, well that's fine.

Classic example at not accepting another point of view!

If you stick up for for DH or DS, you're in the "poor menz" team.

My DH and both my DS are good men, sorry you've not got them in your life but I'm certainly glad they're all in mine!

But OP said men are awful, no some about it.

I think it’s a shame that a few bad experiences mean you feel entitled to tar all men with the same brush.

Given a substantial minority of men are dangerous to women, and given that there is no way to distinguish a dangerous man from a safe one, it's probably safest for women to tar all men with the same brush.

I'd rather be safe and perceived as a man hater than suffer some horrible crime as a result of assuming NAMALT.

I think it’s a shame that a few bad experiences mean you feel entitled to tar all men with the same brush.

Some men are bad and some women are bad yes, but there is a false equivalency that both are equal because whe men are bad they are more likely to resort to abuse and violence.

Women can be awful but rarely are they the ones raping women and using them as punching bags, it happens but is noteworthy when it does because it is so rare.

Even the statistics for DV show interactions and relationships with men are often not without harm. Yes women do these things too, but at markedly much less rates and when men are victims of DV, more than likely it is at the hands of another man.

Not All men, but enough to make us question all men.

What's that saying, men are afraid women will laugh at them, while women are afraid men will kill them. So yes both groups are full of awful people but only one is a threat to the other.

Oh wow OP, this thread is like catnip to the Poor Menz Crew 🤣

I tend to agree. I know 1 good man who I absolutely trust, but my own father sexually abused me from the age of 3, very hard to trust any men when the one single man in the whole world who is meant to love and protect you, is the man you need protection from. He’s not the only one either, I’ve witnessed and experienced a lot of poor behaviour from men through my life. I don’t tend to give them the benefit of the doubt anymore, and like the man above, they rarely understand the difference between bad behaviour they experience from women, and the bad experience women face from men. Men rarely have to fear for their safety in a relationship.

But OP said men are awful, no some about it.

Im always reminded that official stats say that 1/4 women have been raped or sexually abused, but no one knows a rapist. Do we just have a handful of very prevalent offenders on our hands or are men very good at pulling the wool over peoples eyes?
25% of women have been raped or sexually abused, but more than 96% or reported rapes don't result in a conviction. Most victims don't even report in the first place.

I'd say that means there are an awful lots of rapists who get away with it and are walking around scot free. It's more likely everyone knows a rapist, but are unaware. Compounded by the fact that calling an innocent man a rapist seems to be a worse crime than actually being a rapist so even if its known a man has been arrested/suspected of rape, people like to err on the side of caution and assume they are innocent.

Yes, rapists and sexual abusers are very good at pulling the wool over people's eyes. Hence why so many people are outraged by threads like these when the statistical evidence is that a lot of men are not very nice at all.

Thank you @PartridgeInAChair I'm sick to death of reading these type of posts saying you're lying, misguided and I thought the same, my sister, aunt niece all thought the same and every man cheated!

It's bullshit!

And yes I will stand up and say my DH of 36 years is a great life partner.

Same here.

There are sone women who have had all the bad experiences can't accept that there are relationships that work. So they have to take the piss out of the woman because she actually trusts her partner.

There are some lovely men.

The misdeeds women are guilty of are just incomparable to the awfulness of men

@ancientgran of course I’m not comparing identical crimes and claiming those committed by men are worse

I’m saying as a class the crimes of women pale into insignificance against those of men.

Im always reminded that official stats say that 1/4 women have been raped or sexually abused, but no one knows a rapist. Do we just have a handful of very prevalent offenders on our hands or are men very good at pulling the wool over peoples eyes?

I must say I totally agree with you OP.

My dating experience has been awful too and have met quite a few of these ''nice guys'' who turn out to be porn-addicted, misogynistic and even downright abusive. I also had an abusive father.

Can women cheat too? absolutely

Are women as likely as men to be the perpetrators of rape/sexual assault and domestic violence? Absolutely not.

Are women as likely as men to become addicted to porn or use sex workers? Again no.

Are women as likely as men to walk out on their kids? nope.

Are women as likely as men to kill their partner? no.

Do we have a toxic feminity problem as a society? no we don't, but we certainly have a toxic masculinity problem.

I think to suggest that dodgy men are an anomaly and that women are just as bad is simply nonsensical.

As long as we keep refusing to accept that there is a serious issue with men's behaviour towards women and girls (it might not be all men but it still is a sizeable number) we will continue to enable male violence and shitty behaviour in relationships.

I agree with the OP

Or, to use the current favourite trite phrase, 'not reading the room' or some such nonsense.

@theworldhas I don't think woman have lower sex drives. Men who have affairs, use prostitutes or are sexually abusive do so because it's about control and ego. Not sex.

@JohnnyYenSetHimselfOnFireAgain Woman on the thread have given behaviours that they say men do that makes them unlikeable. What behaviour did you dislike about your Ex, rather than the label psycho?

I'm not reading that men need to be "obliterated" just that they need to change the negative behaviours so that women will want to have relationships with them.

In sure that's true for a lot of people,but both of those things - choosing to financially merge with another person and to have kids with them - are optional in the first place.

Of course, some people feel forced into doing them for various reasons.

My husband would never cheat, what am I supposed to say?

What @GoodChat says.

It’s hard to tell you but you’re a bit of anomaly in my sphere of knowledge, I don’t know anyone @TrainteaAnnie or have heard of anyone on the grapevine having had the luck you’ve had.

I’m thinking right back to my parents circle of friends, as well as mine and previous colleagues and I can only think of about 1 who was a real abusive bastard, 2 men who come anywhere close to what you’ve experienced and then probably 3 more who’ve cheated and subsequently treated the ex wife like shit. I’m 42.

I’m not doubting your experiences at all, and I feel very sorry for you must be ticking exhausting, but, I think it might be in the choosing and the circles and the mixing why it seems to be every other man to some people. Do you think that you’re subconsciously choosing a type. No one is that ‘unlucky’.

fingers crossed this one turns out to be a keeper, but, if not I think if you can spending some time with a therapist to try and unpick why you keep ending up with men like this might be good.

the number of people who have posted on here in a way that, had it been said about women, would probably be deleted.

Can you highlight which comments @saraclara?

The comments here are really pretty tame - go have a look on some men's sites and see the onslaught of hatred, aggression and entitlement to women that many men spout.